The Observation Deck

Hi,
Sound crazy? Very recent laws (last October) have been enacted to make it much easier for the President to declare martial law. Why? How quickly can our current House and Senate undo this?

"Any senator who does not vote in favor of the Leahy/Bond repeal of these provisions should promptly be recalled by his or her constituents."

See: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-smiley/what-would-you-do-if-bush_b_41674.html
and
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/19/opinion/19mon3.html?n=Top%2fOpinion%2fEditorials%20and%20Op%2dEd%2fEditorials

What would you do if he did?

What would I do if martial law were declared? I'd go Kent State on your ass.

Doesn't the G.I. Bill mean that you can already go to Kent State on all of our collective tax paying asses?

Donald, do you really think Martial Law is a possibility? Why stop there...

WHAT IF GEORGE BUSH USED NUCLEAR WEAPONS ON THE DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION!!!!!!

AAAAAAAAAH! The sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling!

Marital Law? I have every respect for my married friends but what if I don't want to get married?

Can the President force me to do that? Wait, what does she look like. Maybe marital law ain't all that bad

haha Bret great post!!!!!!

I am no fan of Bush either, but I think people get blinded by their own Bush bashing.

Doug

David Boron wrote:What would I do if martial law were declared? I'd go Kent State on your ass.

David, David, David

Why on earth would you threaten to kill people? Good America tax-payers who every right to question what is going on.

Let's be honest they support the troops far more than this administration did. I cannot see them sending our most precious resource into Iraq to be insurgent fodder. I know they, along with myself would have preferred not to go in first. Then as we went in it would have been nice to do it correctly, give the troops the right armament, body armor and sufficient number to ensure safety. No one left or fired from this nightmare believes GWB or Cheney have a clue on running this war.

Speaking for myself, everything I have mentioned has come sadly true. Lost money, bad management abuse of power, rebuilding is terrible, pipeline built, drugs planted, companies all connected with this administration fat with theft and over charging. But the most important thing is the riff in this country just like Vietnam. We should have learned so much more from Vietnam than "Companies can get rich and fat on war and the blood of our soldiers."

Back on topic.

Brett, Brett, Brett

WHAT IF GEORGE BUSH USED NUCLEAR WEAPONS ON THE DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION!

Now at what point does this even make sense.

Now I understand why the Right is so unstable, but those that didn't you underline with this post why many think they are.

The FACTS remain, that the movement of the Bush Doctrine over the past couple years pint exactly to what Don posted and I believe could be true.

Martial Law, is being readied and fortified to be used in the USA against us. If it will or how it will is the question. Hopefully American and lawmakers get enough spine to hold this administration to the HUNDREDS of lies that they were so willing to hang one lie on the last bum that was president.

I do believe this group is capable of anything, and rarely is it good for the country.

David and Brett, while it is OK to be passionate, murder, mass murder and war against Americans and the Constitution is not. I hope it was the passion for the discussion, not your true beliefs that cause these way over the top statements.

David, for the record, you would not be able to even carry the gun or go outside if Martial Law was declared. They would not have time to check affiliations or blind loyalty, you would be dropped in the streets by the FEMA police.

Very disappointing.

.

Keep drinking that Kool-Aid Jim.

If ANYONE (democrat or republican) declared martial law under the kind of circumstances you infer, the reaction would be similar to that which a teenager gives a overbearing parent. "yeah, right".

What saddens me most is the blind stupidity with which you must believe the military operates, if you are to truly think that such a possibility exists.

Kent State was an isolated incident. And it happened in a much different era.

You look at that legislation and see opportunities for evil. I see it as a possible gateway for other, more innocuous purposes, such as military assistance in use as border patrol, etc.

Some look at the glass and see it half full, others look at it and yell "THE REPUBLICANS DRANK MY WATER!!!!!!!!" "AAAAAAAH, AAAAAAAAH!!!!" [insert Sam Kinnison audio here]

Bret Callentine wrote:Keep drinking that Kool-Aid Jim.

If ANYONE (democrat or republican) declared martial law under the kind of circumstances you infer, the reaction would be similar to that which a teenager gives a overbearing parent. "yeah, right".

What saddens me most is the blind stupidity with which you must believe the military operates, if you are to truly think that such a possibility exists.

Kent State was an isolated incident. And it happened in a much different era.

You look at that legislation and see opportunities for evil. I see it as a possible gateway for other, more innocuous purposes, such as military assistance in use as border patrol, etc.

Some look at the glass and see it half full, others look at it and yell "THE REPUBLICANS DRANK MY WATER!!!!!!!!" "AAAAAAAH, AAAAAAAAH!!!!" [insert Sam Kinnison audio here]

Brett

Those without knowledge of history are forced to relive it again and again and again and again.

Kent State was hardly the only instance of Martial Law. Watts, Chicago, Cleveland, and on and on.

We came dreadfully close this past summer had you bothered to open you eyes and looked. I believe that this will be the switch again this time as well. 12 million illegal aliens in the US. While some talked about illegal should be arrested and sent back they took to the streets every weekend. Each weekend, the demonstrations got a little more nasty a little more violent. I saw a Mexican priest on TV speaking how they will become violent, if people are arrested. A week or two later the idea was place on the back burner, not thrown out. It could be rekindled at a moment's notice. To ignore this is insane.

I look at the legislation, then the administration that has NEVER been truthful with the public, then see the possibility for evil. Please give me as much credit as I give you.

From day one of this administration I saw the "evil" but was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. My hope was at least these guys understood energy, and energy was one of the big five problems. Of course with the Enron deal, they let us down, and have continued to disappoint.

My question to you and Dave, or any that continue to BLINDLY support this illegal regime, is when do you hold this thugs accountable for anything.

I have heard members of the right say things like, "Well if Bush did do that then maybe..." Libby, the war, WMDs, missing funds, secrets, political hit squads, lie and lie after lie. And the right continues to turn a blind eye to their promises of holding them accountable for anything. Always willing to argue black is white, unless GWB says pink is white, then they turn with no history of their own comments and say, "Yes Pink is white." they do not even have the critical chops to say "We were wrong, now pink is white."

If you can give me one example on why I should trust these guys with anything, I would love to hear it.

To revive a post from the past: "Bill Clinton, our finest republican president lied to the American public once(I personally think at least twice, though they were connected). We held him accountable, and the outcome was fair. Can you please tell me the time, this administration has told the truth once?"

As I have often stated and will again. I understand the problems the right have. I would not want to be complicate in mass murder, theft, lies, and the downfall of America. I too would argue it was not happening for awhile. But at some point you have to take responsibility for your actions and the actions of the people you empower. The longer you blindly support the rape of America, the more complicate you become.

As for the comments on this board, violence and threats against others cannot be tolerated. Every member has put too much on the line for the Board to allow that to happen. I hope you and Dave understand that.

Civil, civic discourse, must have ZERO tolerance for threats.

I know you understand at least that.

.

Brett:

Keep drinking that Kool-Aid Jim.

The phrase has its genesis in the events of Jonestown. In 1978 followers of the Reverend Jim Jones blindly followed orders of their leader to drink a toxic punch so they could commit mass suicide, thus avoiding perceived threats to their community. Over 900 men, women and children voluntarily took their own lives, "drinking the Kool-Aid".

The phrase references a failure to logically examine that which we are told. An acceptance of what authority figures tell us is true, even if there is overwhelming contrary evidence, with an underlying mindset that what those leaders tell us is true. It implies an inability for critical analysis, if that analysis would point to a reality different from that being espoused by the leader.

I think Jim might imbibe a Scotch or two, but it would appear to me that Brett and David are swilling that Kool-Aid.

Jeff

JOB wrote:If you can give me one example on why I should trust these guys with anything, I would love to hear it.

well, for starters, because he was voted into office, twice, by the necessary majority of electoral votes.

and as far as the rest goes, I'll simply say that I disagree with your interpretation of what is "evil", and just because something doesn't match with your version of the truth, doesn't necessitate that there was a "lie".

Saddam broke nearly every point of the signed peace treaty. War justified, end of story.

Has it gone perfectly, no, but that make us neither "evil" nor "thugs".

This is what makes it so hard to be an independent (to say nothing of the plight of a full blown republican) in this forum. How am I supposed to respond to a challenge that has very little basis in provable fact.

Face it, both of our arguments are based mostly on our own personal beliefs. I for instance believe that the President and his staff are acting in the best interest of the nation. You BELIEVE he is not.

Please try to refrain from throwing around allegations as facts.

To revive MY earlier post. If you want to prove he's lying or evil, or unethical, than by all means, lets go to trial. the Hague, Capitol Hill, Judge Judy. Wherever! Put up or shut up. Either prove it or move on.

The real reason that Bush will not be brought before any type of tribunal is because deep down, you know you've got no case. Rhetoric - yes! An actual case - no.

JOB wrote:I understand the problems the right have

The right doesn't have any problems other than consistently having to listen to incessantly paranoid rantings of the left.

Americans are pretty docile these days. Mostly this new legislation is busy work for legislators. It lends Weight to powers in the Constitution and old obscure laws the public is no longer excited about. As a bonus it removes the burden of enforcers having to use Discretion or Judgement or Reasoning. If anything goes wrong it is simply the Law's fault.

Protesting requires passion and organization. We hardly ever see real marches or rallies, and if there are the mainstream media whitewashes them. It also requires big numbers, to minimize the risk of being singled out for arrest.

The WTO basically ignored protesters in the States. Since then they hold their meetings at far away, out of the way places. This frees them up from confrontations with honest questions and the indignity of providing meaningless answers.

The recent Republican National Conventions have taken place behind barricades of inaccessible space. critics and spectators are arrested for standing too closely. When it is over Convention Participants retreat to idyllic suburbs of make believe soon after the ugly business of risking an appearance on The Daily Show is over. Contacts were made or strengthened, and big Deals can now be made.

Mr. Ryan wrote:Protesting requires passion and organization

It occurs to me that if the Bush administration truly was as evil as Jim, Jeff or anyone else would like us to think, than their level of protest is simply unacceptable.

If you believe him to be Hitleresque, then why aren't you doing everything in your power to stop him. Or is sitting on your butt and writ ting some heated accusations online what you consider to be appropriate action?

All that tells me is that he's worth disagreeing with, but whatever his crimes, it's not so bad that we can't just wait him out, then maybe the next president will do something better.

Actions speak louder than words. I'll expect your upcoming "sit in" to be covered in the next edition.

I will continue writing in Ross Perot. Unless Sherrod Brown runs.

I will not get caught up in party politics. The Democrats are mostly people who campaign on the merits of not-being-Republicans. Whatever that means. I see it mostly running on automatic pilot. Participating in a state other than that of automatic pilot is like trying to move tectonic plates. I am inconsequential to the political process. Most of us are. Make money where you can, and stick to what you are good at. Stay off the end of those limbs. A few minutes of babbling here a day exorcises what concern I have in politics. We live in the northern midwest. It cant get too bad.

Brett

Just so that the record is reasonably clear.......

if the Bush administration truly was as evil as Jim, Jeff

I don't think I ever said that Bush was evil. I think what I said was that those who accept what he does at face value without a critcal analysis are more likely to be "Kool-Aid" drinkers than those who undertake that analysis.....

Of course, when rhetoric and opinion are paramount without even a willingness to accept that either side may have a point, then neither side is "correct". Because, of course, the "truth" is somewhere in the middle.

While I can disagree (and do) with governmental actions, in the long run, it will only be after the records are unsealed, and history examines the actions, sans a current climate of rhetoric and emotion, that any determination will be made as to the efficacy of this administration.

We won't be around........probably as a result of global warming......

Jeff

First of all, Great Post! Very well put. And, my personal apologies on lumping you in with Jim.

I accept the following points from the "other side". The war has not been handled very well. And, that the American public has not been given the "whole story".

But it remains my personal opinion that those points make Bush neither "evil" or a "liar".

As far as who's drinking the Kool-Aid. If my history serves me correctly, it wasn't the government asking the people of Jonestown to drink the poison. The source of the lies is not a determinant factor on who's more likely to be led astray. It speaks only of those, as you suggest, that are lacking the critical thinking.