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Takeaways from "Civic Accountability"
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:39 pm
by Dan Alaimo
I'm starting this as a new thread so as not to break the continuity of Mark Kindt's excellent presentation.
By the time it's done, I'd like to see some ideas on what, if anything, we can do with this new, carefully considered information.
Mark Kindt has been clear that he is just presenting it and not making recommendations for action, and I can respect that. But there are plenty of others here who no doubt have some ideas. For instance, is it just a matter of waiting for the various lawsuits to run their course? Or is it time for someone to call in law enforcement, and if so who to call, and who should call?
Or is a recall our only option? Given the results of the last few elections, I have my doubts that this will work.
So, ideas please.
Re: Takeaways from "Civic Accountability"
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:21 pm
by james fitzgibbons
I agree that a recall probably would not work, not enough people that are politically active on the good side of the issue. Waiting for lawsuits to process might be the only recourse. How much more damage can be done to the City of Lakewood while we are waiting for lawsuits to play out?
Re: Takeaways from "Civic Accountability"
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:23 pm
by james fitzgibbons
james fitzgibbons wrote:I agree that a recall probably would not work, not enough people that are politically active on the good side of the issue. Waiting for lawsuits to process might be the only recourse. How much more damage can be done to the City of Lakewood while we are waiting for lawsuits to play out? What law enforcement agency would act on this debacle?
Re: Takeaways from "Civic Accountability"
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:25 pm
by james fitzgibbons
I agree that a recall probably would not work, not enough people that are politically active on the good side of the issue. Waiting for lawsuits to process might be the only recourse. How much more damage can be done to the City of Lakewood while we are waiting for lawsuits to play out? OOPS.
Re: Takeaways from "Civic Accountability"
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:26 pm
by Dan Alaimo
The at-large council members are up for re-election next year. It would take strong candidates to defeat incumbents.
Re: Takeaways from "Civic Accountability"
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:27 pm
by Bridget Conant
As they say, the wheels of Justice turn slowly, but there is more to that adage: they grind exceedingly hard.
I have no doubt that 5 years from now, perhaps more, there will be lots of discussion over what happened in Lakewood. I fully expect there will be a decrease in services, attempts to increase the income tax, and coupled with a poor economy, Lakewood will be seen as a less than attractive community.
Will there be indictments and lawsuits? I hope so and I believe so. Look how long the corruption was ignored at the county.
Re: Takeaways from "Civic Accountability"
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:52 pm
by Kate McCarthy
Mark Kindt's brilliant threads points to why I can't handle the contention that we need to embrace the foundation, get excited about the new family health center, move forward, and acknowledge that yes, things were handled badly, but we can't look back. We have to get a seat at the table so we can inform what we would like the foundation to be and ignore the illegitimate roots of the foundation. Politicians are liars, what do you expect, etc.
As a culture, we seem to be moving away from holding, for lack of a better word, people in high places, accountable. No accounting for the lies that led us to the Iraq war, no accounting for the unethical and possibly criminal behavior of the mortgage industry that led to the great recession. Countless people are harmed but the perpetrators are behind a line where an immunity to accountability seems to exist.
I hate how our community has been divided. But if bridging divides means ignoring what has happened and sweeping it under the rug, no thanks.
Re: Takeaways from "Civic Accountability"
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:39 pm
by T Peppard
Kate McCarthy wrote:Mark Kindt's brilliant threads points to why I can't handle the contention that we need to embrace the foundation, get excited about the new family health center, move forward, and acknowledge that yes, things were handled badly, but we can't look back. We have to get a seat at the table so we can inform what we would like the foundation to be and ignore the illegitimate roots of the foundation. Politicians are liars, what do you expect, etc.
As a culture, we seem to be moving away from holding, for lack of a better word, people in high places, accountable. No accounting for the lies that led us to the Iraq war, no accounting for the unethical and possibly criminal behavior of the mortgage industry that led to the great recession. Countless people are harmed but the perpetrators are behind a line where an immunity to accountability seems to exist.
I hate how our community has been divided. But if bridging divides means ignoring what has happened and sweeping it under the rug, no thanks.
I could not agree more. I meet people everyday who were either born in the hospital, had their children there or had a loved one taken care of by the Grace unit... huge impact on our quality of life! So here we are with a council voting unanimously to close it, a FINANCE DIRECTOR FILING FALSE AFFIDAVITS - among other bold face misrepresentations, and no one flinching with concern?!? It is mind boggling. No way will I turn a blind eye to this... just to get along.
Re: Takeaways from "Civic Accountability"
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:39 am
by Bridget Conant
This debacle hasn't been "settled," nor will it "go away" like they wish it would.
Arrogant people, who thought they could pull the wool over the eyes of the public, will eventually fall. It's just a matter of time.
It's not going to go away.
Re: Takeaways from "Civic Accountability"
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:26 am
by Jim O'Bryan
Bridget Conant wrote:This debacle hasn't been "settled," nor will it "go away" like they wish it would.
This is not going away, we aren't even to the halfway point judging by talk on the street.
But what really needs to be put together is an oversight group of citizens, perhaps a board like Liston, Essi, Markling, and others with true professionalism, and credentials to the citizen board.
We really need to check that things are done correctly and legally. Too much money, property, assets to be hands off any longer.
15 years ago the School Board went through this, and only community oversight could right the ship, get it back accounting to voters.
Community, is a group activity. We just lost 2 of our largest employers and $178 million dollars for a handful of magic beans.
Time to get serious.
Re: Takeaways from "Civic Accountability"
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 4:04 pm
by Mark Kindt
There is a way in which we can quantify the impact of the loss of the hospital on the overall economics of Lakewood. It looks like the closure of the hospital removed about 5% of the economic productivity of the City. This does not include the "knock-on" effects to other businesses.
All information is from public sources. Check-out the table attached.
Re: Takeaways from "Civic Accountability"
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:54 pm
by Marguerite Harkness
And that's just the DIRECT effect of the HOSPITAL revenue.
Cleveland Clinic's own Economic Impact Study shows $288 million in economic activity due to the hospital and all the related and unrelated businesses and local spending generated by our full-service hospital, its employees, patients, visitors, doctors, nurses, dentists, medical offices, etc.
Brooklyn lost American Greetings - and they have cut city services due to the loss.
Re: Takeaways from "Civic Accountability"
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:58 pm
by Mark Kindt
So if we add the $288M economic impact, the loss to local GDP is more like a 16% estimate.
Re: Takeaways from "Civic Accountability"
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:15 pm
by Stan Austin
Mark-- You have been posting extensively. Just let it be known that any lack of responsive is a factor of "our" laypersons trying to grasp the legal concepts. Keep it going. Stan
Re: Takeaways from "Civic Accountability"
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:45 pm
by Bridget Conant
Here is the takeaway that matters:
- IMG_4737.JPG (65.36 KiB) Viewed 2413 times
We have a Council and Executive that in no way represents the diversity of our city - the white, middle-aged, male predominant government is old and outdated, in every way imaginable.
We are in desperate need of citizens to step up and run for office. So many people were energized by the SLH campaign - it must continue.
The ethics violations outlined by Mr Kindt will continue until we put people in place who actually commit to serving the public, not themselves.
I hear there are several people looking to run in upcoming elections. Please, do it. We need a breath of fresh air in Lakewood.