The Observation Deck

As we get ready to move into 2017, and some much needed changes, something I was thinking about was...

Moderating a thread by a poster. This could lead to better policing as trolling, BS, thread drift etc.

We have some very some very serious people coming in to talk about some very serious issues, and as we saw over the past couple years, many times over the past couple years the weight of the discussion was lost in the distractions. Outsiders welcomed that never appreciated open discussion, coming in, creating havoc, then screaming look at how out of control THEY ARE. I have noticed some linger on, maybe they have come to realize, the BS, the hype is untrue. No mindset, no koolaid, no agendas, but discussion and transparency, accountability, and honesty from City Hall.

The problem is, I think it creates more issues than cures. At the same time we really need to keep our acts together in the coming year.

As I said way back in 2015, this will get ugly, and Lakewood deserves the facts, the discussion, and the ability to make up their own minds about what works for them.

One of the most bothersome parts of the secret hospital debacle, it was not put together by the very people that will have to live with it long term.

As always, open to any and all ideas.

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The current format has been working fine....Rossen was the one intentionally creating thread drifts.
Since he's been gone, things have been pretty smooth.

Michael Deneen wrote:The current format has been working fine....Rossen was the one intentionally creating thread drifts.
Since he's been gone, things have been pretty smooth.

Mike

Mike, you have been around since day one but...

I post a thread about a great holiday party, backed by Downtown Lakewood Business Association, LakewoodAlive, and many Lakewood Businesses, including "oh the horror, Cotton and Plantation Home, run by the nasty and evil David Stein." The whole thing is crazy, and we have to figure it out.

David Stein and I have talked twice, maybe. We have been on the opposite side of many issues, I can usually figure out David Stein's "evil reason" for being involved. He has two of the nicest, if not higher end stores in the entire city. He desperately wants to keep his life work, effort and lifestyle going. David Stein is responsible for many of the nice things we see through out the year. He is not evil, HE IS NOT A RACIST. I might not agree with him, I might loathe some of his political actions, but damn it's Christmas.

Back to the topic, a couple people coming are not as much into the drama, they are trying to educate, while having a discussion.

It changes nothing on the outside, but do we encourage Thread Author Moderation?

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I agree with Mike.

There will always be a few trolls, but fortunately, they tend to flare up and burn out pretty quickly.

Thread drift can be annoying, sure, but it's part of the nature of conversation. Even when discussing in person, there is always someone who seems to interject something where you want to say, "where did that come from?"

If it isn't broken why try to fix it? It's worked for over 10+ years, with a few bumps here and there. Nothing that isn't completely expected in the real world.

Bridget Conant wrote:IIf it isn't broken why try to fix it? It's worked for over 10+ years, with a few bumps here and there. Nothing that isn't completely expected in the real world.

You both have points, and as you know I have fought for that, BUT the last election proves to me, the Lakewood Observer Project could be better.

In the coming months, it is going to get pretty depressing. Soon people will realize, Brian Essi was not a crazy man, but a tough lawyer, backed and checked by an amazing group of legal, financial and medical legal minds. Brian Essi was not some rogue agent, he was the truth with some hyperbole thrown in.

So my thought...

A person comes up to the bar, grabs the talking stick, and throws down his 2 cents. Do we now give him the ability to help steer his conversation? It stops no one from posting, it stops no one from posting in that thread, it stops no one from starting a new thread.

I am merely asking.

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Jim, I fail to understand how when I reply to your thread about Light Up Lakewood regarding our experience before actually getting to the event, that you consider that drifting. I was telling you about what happened during the event that you referenced.

This was not a drift, rather a statement of fact. I'm glad that you have a good relationship with David Stein. Perhaps that would change if he shut his door in your face.

Now that Corey's gone, the Deck has gotten it's credibility back.

Look on Facebook. Lots of people thought the Light up Lakewood was overrated. Perhaps fun for little ones, but young adults, not so much.

If you want to keep the millennials you claim you attract, then why aren't you doing things that appeal to them?

Check out both the Lakewood Ohio FB and Pae's Lakewood Ohio (Community,) especially since it will probably get deleted on that copycat page.

I agree with Amy.

All I did was make a statement about what some of my black friends have said about Stein's choice for store names. I never said he was a racist. None of us really know who all is a racist. We don't know what goes through whose minds. I was also not the first person to mention the store names.

We all know that Stein is an alleged good friend of Summers and an alleged company member.

As we know, the mayor reads the Deck. The mayor is probably not a fan of 90% of comments made here. Why has something that has worked so well for over ten years suddenly need to be moderated with such scrutiny?

This is the only fair media outlet that is left in this city. Please do not allow Summers to control this too.

I post a thread about a great holiday party, backed by Downtown Lakewood Business Association, LakewoodAlive, and many Lakewood Businesses, including "oh the horror, Cotton and Plantation Home, run by the nasty and evil David Stein." The whole thing is crazy, and we have to figure it out.

Where else would Amy best make her comment about HER experience at Light up Lakewood? On a new thread with a big headline?

I thought it was appropriate. You may think LUL is a a big whoop de doo, but not everyone is so charmed.

Amy,

Nothing to do with your post. Nothing at all. I have no relationship with David Stein. He was an advertiser. I appreciate what he has done investing in Lakewood. I doubt that David took any Landscaping job other than, 1) His yard is gorgeous, 2) He likes to do it, 3) He cares.

I loathe the fact he wanted to keep this debacle hush hush, as much as defending any of those people but...

Lori

Not about that post really, just an example. David and I have some mutual friends, yes even those of different backgrounds. For the record, they love David. Which has no bearing on the hospital, or downtown. But those views really do not have to be dragged into everything.

A fact someone said to me a year ago. "When do people stop volunteering?" He meant thin skin. I believe we have to be better. Why can't I, I do not care what you do or think, appreciate the good things David has done, while disagreeing with him on some things? Does the other person have to be the enemy? Satan?

But back to why I started this. I know some people are signing on to take Lakewood on a journey. As I have said, the hospital is not the problem, just the most visible sign right now. For a city to get so far off the mark, to have such a disregard for the public's opinion, is troublesome at best. The only reason you know anything about this debacle is because of 4 lawsuits, 2 elections, and one volunteer paper? WTF?!!!

So I am trying to convince some of the heavy weights in Community Vision and design to come back in and or in for the first time.

To that end, how upset will members be, if they look for additional help keeping members on topic.

OR, can we monitor ourselves?

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Jim O'Bryan wrote:So I am trying to convince some of the heavy weights in Community Vision and design to come back in and or in for the first time.

This is great news. I hope you are successful. I think wider participation and wider exposure are what would enhance the Observation Deck's value most.

I don't know how best to moderate conversations, but my advice would be: if you think something might be beneficial, just try it. It's a live online forum, here. (And with the currently small number of active users it also feels a bit like an ongoing beta test anyway.) It does no real harm to vary some settings; if it works out, you'll know, and if it doesn't, you can dump the idea and things will likely be back as though nothing happened within a few days.

mjkuhns wrote:

Jim O'Bryan wrote:So I am trying to convince some of the heavy weights in Community Vision and design to come back in and or in for the first time.

This is great news. I hope you are successful. I think wider participation and wider exposure are what would enhance the Observation Deck's value most.

I don't know how best to moderate conversations, but my advice would be: if you think something might be beneficial, just try it. It's a live online forum, here. (And with the currently small number of active users it also feels a bit like an ongoing beta test anyway.) It does no real harm to vary some settings; if it works out, you'll know, and if it doesn't, you can dump the idea and things will likely be back as though nothing happened within a few days.

mj

I was talking with a founding member the other night, and it is funny what we worked on and how well it has worked. The one place it lacks is the ability to offer academia, and professionals, ir people that live in the search engines, a place to have a semi serious discussions about topics in their field. It is not total censorship. But if Stephan Hawking stopping in to talk quantum physics and black holes, how long would it take him to find out, we have no black holes because the mayor took them and we have no hospital to find them. To over simply.

Also the community has grown a bit numb, and disillusioned from the cries of whatever. Heck if someone had to say whatever now, for say some reason, for real, no one would hear it.

Then there is the topic of low numbers on the Deck. This is the same discussion that has gone on for 12 years. It simply is not true. There is always about 10 active people of different views that come and go. About another 20 outliers, that change through the existence of the Deck.

Besides, if you want fluffy stuff, go to good news places. If you want nastiest hidden as positive comments, go to FB. The place is evil. If you want substance about the coty we all love, if you want to share opinions and have a discussion that can take more than 30 minutes, stop by here.

This is only an idea, nothing figured out yet, just asking before anything is moved along.

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Jim O'Bryan wrote:But if Stephan Hawking stopping in to talk quantum physics and black holes, how long would it take him to find out, we have no black holes because the mayor took them and we have no hospital to find them.

A little sad, very hilarious and completely true.

Jim O'Bryan wrote: If you want nastiest hidden as positive comments, go to FB. The place is evil.

Lot of truth to that also. I don't go there.

Keep up the important work; I look forward to its next chapter.

Jim O'Bryan wrote: But if Stephan Hawking stopping in to talk quantum physics and black holes, how long would it take him to find out, we have no black holes because the mayor took them and we have no hospital to find them.

Jim, this is spot on and one of the biggest issues with the Deck in its current state. There is not much conversation. There is no back and forth. There is one side that dominates every conversation and it seems every thread, no matter how innocent or innocuous, becomes "Mayor, Hospital, Solstice Steps, Garbage". It gets tiresome and actually takes away from some of the great work that people like Brian Essi has done. Yes, I may disagree with many things Mr. Essi says but there is no doubt he has done his research and puts things in a very straight forward manner and makes excellent points.

We all agree on one thing : we want Lakewood to be the best town it can possibly be. At least I think we all agree on that. What we may disagree on is HOW Lakewood can become the best town it can possibly be. That is where dialogue should occur. But there is no dialogue. It is a one sided hate machine against the administration and anything that is done.

Does this mean the Deck should be moderated? I don't know. I think the train left the station on this one. There are lots of people who used to lurk/post on the Deck who don't even give it a second thought now. And that's sad. This was a great place for discourse and dialogue that has turned into a "Down with Mike Summers and his administration" rally. That's no fun for anyone. But, I wouldn't be a fan of "Lakewood does nothing wrong" rallys either. The truth, as often, is somewhere in between. But that takes both civility and two sides. And right now, that second side just doesn't come to the Deck.

Sorry for the rambling but I appreciate what you posted and the question posed. In concept, I love the Deck and what it stands for in regards to an open forum. But the last year or so has turned it into 80% hatred of everything about the administration and maybe 20% about Lakewood in general. And that's just not fun to watch. IMHO.

Also, for the record, I am in no way, shape or form connected to the Summers' administration. Just someone that loves Lakewood and would like to have good discussion around it without having everything devolve into "Solstice Steps". And, for the record, my opinion is that the Solstice Steps are actually quite nice and a great place to spend a summer sunset.

Matthew

Curious how this will work in practice, how the forums might be integrated, how traffic might be driven from one forum to another, and from the outside in.