The Observation Deck

Freinds of Summers Jay Carson has played many roles in the hospital debacle.

1. He's listed as the "deputy-treasurer" of the "Voters Engaged to Oppose (Veto 64) PAC. He made an impassioned speech to city council last year attacking fellow citizens and labeling them " bullies" and claiming Build Lakewood did not receive money and support from CCF. Given Summers ever shifting testimony it appears Carson's claims were flimsy at best-- as deputy dog treasurer shouldn't he have known better?

2. He intermittently claimed at city he spoke for himself and NCHM, but appeared as the attorney for Build Lakewood and desparatelt filed a brief in support of the crooked Master Agreement.

3. He's been on the Charter Commision.

4. I've been told he's been on the Civil Service Commission.

5. He's been the long standing "secretary" for North Coast Health Ministry--an organization dependent on CCF funding which stands to benefit from the "new foundation"

6. Recently he has surfaced as the attorney for a Build Lakewood member under police investigation for sending anonymous mail to citizens in favor of SLH. If Carson is to believed in his post as to "hating bullies" so much, how and why did he come to associate with and defend such a person and such behavior?

Exactly how many hats does Jay Carson wear?

What is Jay Carson's interest is seeing the hospital destroyed?

Why is he so passionate about this cause?

What is in it for him?

Is Mr. Carson is too "intimidated" by the rough and tumble Deck posters he considers "bullies"?

Or does Jay Carson fit it a definition of a "bully" who uses his status to intimidate others and intermittently play the victim?

Are they any other hats that Jay Carson is wearing?

I don't like this. I don't like these kinds of personal attacks at all. That said, I’m not even sure what accusations are being made... or if any are being made at all. Are you simply faulting him for having a different opinion and behaving accordingly? I see the use of loaded terms to try and paint his support of his side of this issue in a negative light but I fail to see any specific charges of anything that might be considered wrongdoing. Can we please stop with this kind of thing? Is it too much to ask that we stick to making points and counter-points without the ad hominems? Feel free to point out illegal acts if you have something to back up your claims but simply trying to sully someone’s name just for being an activist on the other side of an issue would seem to fit the description of bullying to me. In any case, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – this post is the kind of thing that drives people (including me) away from the deck.

Jeff Dreger wrote:I don't like this. I don't like these kinds of personal attacks at all. That said, I’m not even sure what accusations are being made... or if any are being made at all. Are you simply faulting him for having a different opinion and behaving accordingly? I see the use of loaded terms to try and paint his support of his side of this issue in a negative light but I fail to see any specific charges of anything that might be considered wrongdoing. Can we please stop with this kind of thing? Is it too much to ask that we stick to making points and counter-points without the ad hominems? Feel free to point out illegal acts if you have something to back up your claims but simply trying to sully someone’s name just for being an activist on the other side of an issue would seem to fit the description of bullying to me. In any case, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – this post is the kind of thing that drives people (including me) away from the deck.

I think Brian raises valid questions.
I'm thankful that there is somebody out there looking into these matters.

As for "this kind of thing that keeps people (including me) away from the deck'...... you're here, aren't you?

I found Brian's post interesting and informative, to those that do not want others to speak on an open public forum do not come to this one.

Michael Deneen wrote:I think Brian raises valid questions.

Which ones?

Michael Deneen wrote:As for "this kind of thing that keeps people (including me) away from the deck'...... you're here, aren't you?

Not nearly as much as I would be. And many others have left or have opted not to join in.

james fitzgibbons wrote:to those that do not want others to speak on an open public forum do not come to this one.

Well, many people are not coming. But it's not because they don't want others to speak. It's because they want civilized discourse.

While I tended to lean SLH, I mostly avoided the topic here because of the nature of the posts. That also had the impact of keeping me away more generally, especially when the issue would dominate all the threads.

Perhaps I will need to come back to ask how many hats I am allowed to wear in life and which ones are acceptable based on my stance on the issues.

The Clown Car Cronies in action. Impressive. It must be a coordinated act.

Jeff Dreger wrote:It's because they want civilized discourse.

If you like your "civilized discourse" to be comprised of City Hall talking points, I recommend you "like" City Hall's fake Community Facebook page.
It's all sunshine and lollipops.

This forum is used by the folks that have uncovered facts in the matter.....facts that make a lot of powerful people uncomfortable.
Those powerful people try to undermine the research by labeling the messengers as "nasty"....thereby avoiding the actual issue.

Michael Deneen wrote:

Jeff Dreger wrote:It's because they want civilized discourse.

If you like your "civilized discourse" to be comprised of City Hall talking points, I recommend you "like" City Hall's fake Community Facebook page.
It's all sunshine and lollipops.

This forum is used by the folks that have uncovered facts in the matter.....facts that make a lot of powerful people uncomfortable.
Those powerful people try to undermine the research by labeling the messengers as "nasty"....thereby avoiding the actual issue.

I don't want sunshine and lollipops. I want facts. But just say that "Mr. X does A as well as B and therefor I believe it is a conflict of interest". When you start calling folks "deputy dog" and getting personal and using the language that has become common here, then the messengers get labeled "nasty" because they are nasty and then - to a certain extent - you lose your audience, even those that might otherwise be on your side.

Jeff,I agree with you. SLH has lost a lot of credibility here on the Deck , as well as in the community. I was at the veterinarian's office this week and we were discussing the hospital. The staff said that they lost interest in saving the hospital because the group had become overbearing and overzealous. This is why I left the group about a year ago. I have tried both before and after leaving the group to speak to members to tell them my concerns with community feedback that I have been hearing. Sadly, it appeared to fall on deaf ears.

I will put on my giant sponge suit and get ready to absorb some arrows!

Lori Allen _ wrote:Jeff,I agree with you. SLH has lost a lot of credibility here on the Deck , as well as in the community. I was at the veterinarian's office this week and we were discussing the hospital. The staff said that they lost interest in saving the hospital because the group had become overbearing and overzealous. This is why I left the group about a year ago. I have tried both before and after leaving the group to speak to members to tell them my concerns with community feedback that I have been hearing. Sadly, it appeared to fall on deaf ears.

I will put on my giant sponge suit and get ready to absorb some arrows!

Lori, This is a remarkable coincidence because I was just at my veterinarian this week (new puppy, she's going to be big, legs like tree trunks) and we got to talking about Lakewood Hospital. The take away was that they were grateful for the information that came up on the Deck (especially Mr. Essi's posts) and that the lies and machinations of the Summers' administration were the real affront. They expressed fatigue at the constantly regurgitated "we don't like your tone" talking point. They also wondered what was up with the Director of Development resigning on the eve of Lakewood's biggest challenge in terms of Development.

By the way, I think it's great that we each had such different experiences. It just goes to show what a diverse city we live in.

We are taking our dogs to the vet next week . . can't wait to get their take then!!

m buckley wrote:

Lori Allen _ wrote:Jeff,I agree with you. SLH has lost a lot of credibility here on the Deck , as well as in the community. I was at the veterinarian's office this week and we were discussing the hospital. The staff said that they lost interest in saving the hospital because the group had become overbearing and overzealous. This is why I left the group about a year ago. I have tried both before and after leaving the group to speak to members to tell them my concerns with community feedback that I have been hearing. Sadly, it appeared to fall on deaf ears.

I will put on my giant sponge suit and get ready to absorb some arrows!

Lori, This is a remarkable coincidence because I was just at my veterinarian this week (new puppy, she's going to be big, legs like tree trunks) and we got to talking about Lakewood Hospital. The take away was that they were grateful for the information that came up on the Deck (especially Mr. Essi's posts) and that the lies and machinations of the Summers' administration were the real affront. They expressed fatigue at the constantly regurgitated "we don't like your tone" talking point. They also wondered what was up with the Director of Development resigning on the eve of Lakewood's biggest challenge in terms of Development.

By the way, I think it's great that we each had such different experiences. It just goes to show what a diverse city we live in.

It goes to show you, you get back what you put out.
Lori you love to beat on SLH it must make you feel better. BTW as far as I know Brian Essi is not a member of SLH. I believe you are spreading hearsay, overbearing is what Lord and his friends are, by stealing healthcare and assets from Lakewood citizens.

In just this past week on the Deck, I have been falsely accused of engaging in fraud, being part of some "secret society", part of "clown cars" and somehow speaking for SLH. I'm not whining about it because I fully understand how people fear what I know.

But may I ask, where were Mr. Dreger and Ms. Allen to complain about Corey Rossen's personal attacks this past week?

Hmmmm

If Jay Carson was the the deputy treasurer of the PAC shouldn't he have known who was contributing funds? Hmmm

Stating facts and asking questions are now considered personal attacks and bullying in the Deck? Huh?

It is common for mice to wear Lions' costumes, but how can the costume change to a lambs' costume so quickly?

Anyone complaining about SLH's tone and credibility on the deck and elsewhere is trading in old news. Lori admits it's been more than a year since she's been a part of it, and I know she's been contacted (nicely, I understand) since then. Frankly, we could use her researching skills, but she shouldn't expect total buy-in on every point she raises. That doesn't happen there, or anywhere.

I'm bringing my dog to the vet next week for a laser therapy treatment. I'll ask. Oh, and this vet is in Avon.

As to the the Brian/Corey debate, to me it seemed to come down to: "Oh yeah?" "Yeah?" "Oh yeah!" "Yeah!" "Oh yeah." "Yeah." "Well, yo' mama." "No, yo' mama." "Yeah?" "Yeah!" It was a very tedious exchange between two people apparently dedicated to doing good.

Lori, you can criticize all you want. You have made many accusations about many people that may or may not be true but you do not care.