The Observation Deck

Is this good or bad?

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03 ... grade.html

Do the people that live here have anything to say about it?

me personally, I'd much rather see them use any money to extend a branch of the red line rapid along side the rail line that runs through the heart of the city, connecting to the West Blvd Station.

Put a stop at the West End, one at the park behind drug mart, one near the Giant Eagle and one close to W117th.

I'd much rather get that project rolling than spend years ripping up a perfectly good street that moves traffic relatively well, so we can put in a median that will constrict everything down to a standstill and eliminate even more parking.

While I do like the aero look wheel openings on those long buses---- (catch the 1930 Chrysler Airflow for the inspiration) and, I am a great supporter of expanded public transportation, I just don't see how this fits in with anything at all.
It seems that the Community Circulator buses and their routes have been resounding successes. The little stubby things might not be as glamorous but they definitely satisfy a demand. That's where the expansion is needed.
This proposed route just doesn't make any sense to me.
Stan Austin

Bret Callentine wrote:me personally, I'd much rather see them use any money to extend a branch of the red line rapid along side the rail line that runs through the heart of the city, connecting to the West Blvd Station.

Put a stop at the West End, one at the park behind drug mart, one near the Giant Eagle and one close to W117th.

I'd much rather get that project rolling than spend years ripping up a perfectly good street that moves traffic relatively well, so we can put in a median that will constrict everything down to a standstill and eliminate even more parking.

Exactly! If that corridor is in their top 5 for ridership, I would think that would warrant a rapid line. I've been hoping for something like this for years. I'd take a tax hike for a rapid line through Lakewood, not just hitting the corner of it.

If it is going to be any thing like the Euclid "Health Line" Then I say no. Take years to build what can only be described as a horrific bus death waiting to happen is not a plan I can get behind.

I love the idea of a boulevard (with out buses puling up to it) to spruce up the street.

What is wrong with the current system of the buses heading back and fourth?

Why can't Lakewood decide what to do with Clifton on it's own? Is it because we want the RTA money?

With that said I will still withhold judgment until I see some drawings.

And Bret I agree with the whole train thing. It would cost less and further the cause for more train public transport.

We're probably going to have a public meeting on this topic soon, to explain some of the background of this proposed project.

Several years ago, the City of Lakewood, together with the Edgewater area of Cleveland, adopted a plan which called for improvements on Clifton Boulevard, including lighting, landscaping, and some medians. This was adopted after a whole series of public forums, spearheaded by Councilman Mike Dever. However, due to a lack of state and local funding, and other more pressing infrastructure needs, it was placed on a backburner.

In early 2008, RTA approached the City of Lakewood to gauge our interest in an expansion of their extended bus system, which would include many of those same improvements. We said we did have an interest, as it would bring RTA dollars for a previously identified Lakewood project.

RTA recently received federal funding for an engineering study of these and related improvements to Clifton. Completion of that engineering work could then put RTA in line for additional funds to actually build the improvements.

We will go over all of this in an upcoming forum, but a couple things should be spelled out:

1. This is not a "Euclid Corridor" type project, with bus stops in large medians in the center of the road.

2. This was an RTA request to Congress, not a Lakewood request. If we were given millions for infrastructure, it would go first to basic road repair. In fact, our top request for infrastructure funds is to repair our basic roadway system. However, if RTA gets a new allocation of federal money, we certainly hope it is spent on a local project.

3. This RTA project has no relation to our current financial situation. No city funds have been included in any cost estimates. In fact, it would save us money because it would replace dollars reserved for Clifton maintenance. This would be a project funded by federal dollars.

4. Final details still remain to be worked out between RTA, the City of Cleveland, Councilman Jay Westbrook, Congressman Kucinich, and Lakewood representatives. We are committed to a vision that has a minimum disruption in traffic patterns while representing a real improvement in the boulevard.

I will post details of the upcoming refresher forum we will hold on this topic soon, and I would encourage you to come with your questions.

Still, it seems like they're just spending to spend. Of the two main lines I would think that it would be the #26, not the #55 that would most benefit from the face lift. Besides, as the #26 services the entire West Cleveland and Lakewood business corridor, I think that an influx of investment would reap a much greater reward.

And wouldn't that tie in with the "Mainstreet" project more immediately than waiting for further surveys and studies on Clifton?

Why fix what isn't broken?

And as for my other proposition, I'll throw out a few more thoughts...

I would think that now might be an opportune time to investigate the land acquisition necessary to widen the area on both the north and south side of the existing rail line to allow for a two way commuter line as well as additional over/under pass structures and some more sound deadening plants and trees.

If they're so anxious to spend their funding, then lets take advantage of what few opportunities we currently have.

We have a design ready project in "Mainstreet Lakewood" that would meld nicely with updated RTA service.

And we have a weak housing market that could actually make rail expansion economically feasible.

Just my opinion.

Thanks Mr. FitzGerald. I apperitiate you spelling thing out in such a clear manner and look froward to the upcoming forums on this subject.

I favor community agriculture in the medians. It will help with the smog and if you get stuck in traffic, grab an apple or tomato.

extending the Rapid would be nice, but the cost would be astronomical ... the Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) idea, like what is on the Health Line, is infinitely cheaper ... basically it's the cost of the larger busses, the stations, some lane striping for the bus lanes, and some equipment for synchronizing the lights so that the BRTs essentially get green lights as they approach, so they don't stop as much. Not as romantic as rail, but it's cheap. I think it's a good start, especially as this line would end at Public Square, where the Health Line begins, so for those of us who work in University Circle, it's a good way to commute in.

I'd eventually like to see commuter rail on the single track through the city, but there's some cost there ... usually those lines are heavily subsidized, but I could see that if the BRT works, then perhaps eventually it would justify trying to bring in commuter rail that extends far out to Lorain or even farther west, though I have no doubt the folks in 'River and Bay would oppose that, because they'd figure that the trains would bring out unsavory folks from the Cleveland city limits to their fair cities to plunder and pillage (though would these same scoundrels attempt to escape with their ill-gotten booty on the commuter train?).

Hey, the BRT is a start, and it won't cost us anything ... let's give it a chance. It could be nice. Could also attract more folks to move to Lakewood. Either way, it couldn't hurt the city.

paint is the solution.

on a boulevard like clifton. two or three lanes going west, one lane going east. No curb parking. One Lake Road or Detroit or Franklin, two or three lanes going east, one going west. no curb parking. It seems cheaper than building a 'meridian' in the middle of Euclid.

if light rail is added, it would have to be pretty much the same: an east bound track on one existing street. a west bound track on a street parallel to that.

Mayor FitzGerald

As always thanks for coming on and clearing up the questions. It is always refreshing when a public official or civic leader wades into the mosh pit of word jazz on the Deck.

Bill

This will be great!

The end at Clifton Park will make it fast and easy for most to take a ride to the end, and walk to other places in Lakewood. At Rush hour thousands from the million of jobs regionalism has created will be able to get off the noisy rapid, and walk through Clifton Park on their way home to the apartments at the end of Detroit. Just s a short hike past Captain's Cove, over the Vista Bridge to the land of the working class.

It should also make it nicer for crack heads who normally have lost their cars and now need rapids to get into neighborhoods that have stuff easy to steal and sell. Should baloance the economy very nicely.

As the RTA practices regionalism first, hence the line that went down to "Public Square" now goes from Lakewood's Scenic Park District to "Windmere/East Cleveland" More for the regional push than efficiency.

It will be nice to now bring them to the heart of Clifton Park. Maybe Team Neo had a hand in this? Might be a reason to build the hotel at the Sloan Underpass after all.

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Jim O'Bryan wrote:Mayor FitzGerald

As always thanks for coming on and clearing up the questions. It is always refreshing when a public official or civic leader wades into the mosh pit of word jazz on the Deck.

I agree. We are lucky to have him.

The original idea behind Clifton Avenue improvements was to make it a more beautiful, guiet, liveable street. A real boulevard might attract developers who would improve existing apartments and build new apartments or condo's. Minutes from downtown, within walking distance to the hospital, the library, restaurants, bars, shopping and more.

The government is spending $1 billion dollars on residential development on Euclid Avenue to build what already exists on Clifton Boulevard. If this RTA development is just the down payment on such a plan for Clifton Boulevard it is a great opportunity. A test of their good will would be RTA's support for the restoration of Clifton Park.

If it evolves as just another freeway through Lakewood then tell RTA to go to hell.

Bill Call wrote:

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Mayor FitzGerald

As always thanks for coming on and clearing up the questions. It is always refreshing when a public official or civic leader wades into the mosh pit of word jazz on the Deck.

I agree. We are lucky to have him.

The original idea behind Clifton Avenue improvements was to make it a more beautiful, guiet, liveable street. A real boulevard might attract developers who would improve existing apartments and build new apartments or condo's. Minutes from downtown, within walking distance to the hospital, the library, restaurants, bars, shopping and more.

The government is spending $1 billion dollars on residential development on Euclid Avenue to build what already exists on Clifton Boulevard. If this RTA development is just the down payment on such a plan for Clifton Boulevard it is a great opportunity. A test of their good will would be RTA's support for the restoration of Clifton Park.

If it evolves as just another freeway through Lakewood then tell RTA to go to hell.

Bill

We are lucky to have someone willing to step into the public they serve and carry on a conversation for all. The mayor has mastered it better than most other civic leaders.

I do not see it as a freeway through Lakewood. Besides, the sprawl will slow and contraction will happen. Well it will if Cleveland can worry more about themselves then Youngstown, Akron, Canton, Ashtabula, Mentor etc. Again how can Cleveland survive when many groups are also pushing for these other cities. Of course that what they are paid to do, so...

I see it more like what the bus lines did for the end of Madison and Detroit twenty years ago. An end of the line destination for people to get off and look to live. Many of the apartments on the end of Detroit and Madison much like the end of the lines in Euclid, create whole little economies. It is as far from the city someone without a car or driver's license can get. So all sorts of opportunities will come out of it. Had that hotel been built, it could become and apartment for the added residents.

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