The Observation Deck

So I was out in San Francisco earlier this year and just loved the street cars. I also know that Lakewood's layout was also driven in large part by street cars which got me thinking...

Everyone is always complaining about lack of parking and we know the long corridor of retail was designed for the world of street cars so wouldn't it be cool to add a very low cost streetcar line back to Detroit and Madison?

It would be something unique to set us apart, make it easy and cheap to visit multiple locations on the route and maybe even ease people's parking problems.

Anyway, just a thought.

I'm all for it.

Can I be the first to ring the bell?

Corey

Bryan - Great question! I have often wished for the same thing, especially after visiting Toronto many years ago, which (apocryphally) , purchased much of their streetcar and rail infrastructure from the greater Cleveland area in the early 1960s.

Last year the library featured a showing of Jasper Woods' award-winning Streetcar film. which documented the daily grind of streetcars in Cleveland in the mid-1950s.
Ben Burdick had worked with Jasper's son to bring the film to Lakewood (since we were a streetcar-based city for many years) and has since posted the entire film to the library's YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4qnPxzhFWw

While streetcars are ineffably cool, isn't that exactly the function that the circulator bus serves now?

Just sayin', the option is already out there, and I'm not sure how well-utilized the service is.

There is not enough room for a street car on Madison.

While a nice idea to bring back streetcars to Lakewood, can you imagine the congestion surrounding Warren and Detroit if a line when down Detroit, besides Madison ?

Possibly a trackless trolly might be more practical, have the ambiance but could be used anywhere in the city?

Mark Allan Crnolatas

Possibly a trackless trolly might be more practical, have the ambiance but could be used anywhere in the city?

I think that is what RTA thinks the circulator is.....

Jeff

"low cost" and "streetcar line" are two things that should never be in the same sentence. I'd love to see a streetcar line back in Lakewood ... but the costs would be enormous. It's one thing to lay down the track (tear up the road to lay the track at grade level so cars can drive over it), but then you also need to run special electric lines overhead to power the streetcar (which you'd also need if you were going with an electric trackless trolley, which a number of cities have used in the past, so they don't need rails). It would take years, and hundreds of millions of dollars.

Personally though, I'd love to see commuter rail cars utilizing the Norfolk Southern tracks in town, running morning trains into the city, and then afternoon trains back out of city to the west shore burbs. I think that would prove hugely popular, for a relatively lower (though it'd still be expensive) cost.

c. dawson wrote:"low cost" and "streetcar line" are two things that should never be in the same sentence. I'd love to see a streetcar line back in Lakewood ... but the costs would be enormous. It's one thing to lay down the track (tear up the road to lay the track at grade level so cars can drive over it), but then you also need to run special electric lines overhead to power the streetcar (which you'd also need if you were going with an electric trackless trolley, which a number of cities have used in the past, so they don't need rails). It would take years, and hundreds of millions of dollars.

What about solar powered, gas as a backup street car. Large investment upfront. (maybe not hundreds of millions of dollars) Then the power would pay for the operation.

Brian Pedaci wrote:While streetcars are ineffably cool, isn't that exactly the function that the circulator bus serves now?

Just sayin', the option is already out there, and I'm not sure how well-utilized the service is.

The point is to be distinctive, give it character. What's special about the RTA circulator bus? Nothing.

I agree.

For what it's worth, my wife, who worked with for a company that handled RTA's public relations back in the early 2000s, was informed at that time that the Lakewood circulator was one of the most profitable of those lines in their system (many others were losing money). I guess a simple phone call to RTA would provide the details on ridership, profit, etc.

I contacted both the city of lakewood (albeit durring the previous administration) and Cleveland RTA last year in regards to bringing the better looking trolly style busses that are already being used downtown, into lakewood to replace the existing circulator.

I was told, on both ends, that plans were made to make this switch, but that funds and existing fleet age was the restrictive issue.

I should have asked, how much would it cost to do the replacement now?

Perhaps our new administration can look into speeding up the process.

the trollys downtown are pretty nice.

see here: http://www.riderta.com/ro_downtown.asp

Regarding my idea of a Trackless Trolly, I meant a Trolly Car as in Sanfrancisco, but with rubber tires rather than used on a track.

Mark Allan Crnolatas

Bryan Schwegler wrote:

Brian Pedaci wrote:While streetcars are ineffably cool, isn't that exactly the function that the circulator bus serves now?

Just sayin', the option is already out there, and I'm not sure how well-utilized the service is.

The point is to be distinctive, give it character. What's special about the RTA circulator bus? Nothing.

Every once in a while, when there's snow on the ground and you're driving by Madison/Harding schools, the bus will get pelted with snowballs from kids walking home. It scares the hell out of me every time it happens.

You never know what you'll get on a circulator ride. It's like a box of chocolates. That's pretty special.

Mark Crnolatas wrote:Regarding my idea of a Trackless Trolly, I meant a Trolly Car as in Sanfrancisco, but with rubber tires rather than used on a track.

Mark Allan Crnolatas

Like Lolly the Trolley? They're nice but they really suck in winter.