The Observation Deck

There are many bars and restaurants in our city. We are currently letting a valuable resource go the waste. If we had an effective collection system and a few storage tanks, Lakewood could reap great rewards. This is not high tech any diesel engine can run on vegetable oil. You can mix with regular diesel in any percent.
If Lakewood could replace 1/4 to 1/2 of the diesel with low cost collection of waste oil, I would bet we could save thousands of dollars per year. Restaurants and bars already pay to have the oil removed, the city could charge less and save the businesses money as well. I believe the time has come to be a progressive city and to make real change.

Not only can that be a way to raise money - but the city could also pick-up the cans and bottles for recycling. The cost of aluminum keeps going up and most of the cans and bottles are thrown out. I realize the bars employ private trash removal, so it doesn't cost the city to pick-up the trash - but why not try to turn this into a money generator. I would think that the revenue generated could be diverted to the police department to assist in funding additional patrols in high nightlife areas

This is so low tech it is sickening. All you need to do is filter the grease a couple of time through a 5mil filter. Why spent thousands of dollars to ruin the environment? I for one want my local government looking for every opportunity to get away from foreign dependence on oil. Street sweepers, garbage trucks, fire trucks, ect. could all be emitting a nice french fry odor. It would be a huge step forward for our city. Does anyone on here know what the city spends on diesel per year?

Joe Whisman wrote:This is so low tech it is sickening. All you need to do is filter the grease a couple of time through a 5mil filter. Why spent thousands of dollars to ruin the environment? I for one want my local government looking for every opportunity to get away from foreign dependence on oil. Street sweepers, garbage trucks, fire trucks, etc. could all be emitting a nice french fry odor. It would be a huge step forward for our city. Does anyone on here know what the city spends on diesel per year?

To use straight fryer grease with only minimal filtering is the low tech but not necessarily the best alternative. Animal fat contained in this oil has a nasty way of destroying the internal combustion engine as well as the filtered fryer grease's tendency to gel at even moderately low temperature. To convert this resource into a usable bio-diesel requires the use of several chemicals, tanks, mixers and pumping equipment. Furthermore the process creates glycerin which may or may not be a usable byproduct.

I am a big fan of bio-diesel but find that people are sometimes naive when it comes to its use. It is not "plug and play". It's more like a Linux, you have to know what you are doing and when you do it works much better Windoze.

While not plug and play, it could make a huge difference for the city. They are the professionals, and should take a serious look at it. The system that I saw had a tank and a pump, but no chemicals. The driver could flip a switch a run on veggie oil.

Hi,
I agree with you 100% Mr. Whisman. Mr. Hoffert raises a good point but we could construct a small facility down by the water treatment plant and those guys would be able to do what is needed to make a workable fuel supplement.

I just purchased an older MB diesel just so I could look into this further. Turns out there are a couple of places where I can buy bio-diesel at the pump. Oberlin is the closest right now. But my work week places me close once a week so thats working out for me. It would be amazing for the citizens of Lakewood to be able to get this from our local government. Way cool!

Perhaps too cool for reality. But one can dream.

Donald, If you could, post your results about the car experiment. I have been trying to talk myself into trying the same thing, and would love to hear someones firsthand experience. Agreed, too cool. Thanks, Robert

Don,
Are you talking about Full Circle Fuels in Oberlin?
I've talked with Sam at FCF about a diesel conversion for a Jetta. The conversion would allow you the option of running on straight vegetable oil from a second fuel tank as Joe was describing. You run on diesel for a few minutes to get the oil heated up so that it flows, and then you switch over to straight veggie oil. At the end of your trip, you again run on diesel to clear the lines of veggie. As mentioned, you can use used veggie oil, but you must pre-filter it.
The conversion (kit and labor) would be $2500 to $3000 depending on the type of tank you choose.
I didn't ask about damage to the engine that Steve is talking about...I'll have to check into that if we go any further.
I was told that you would get the same fuel economy as running on diesel. FCF plans on (and may already be??) selling veggie oil for approx. $1/gallon less than diesel.
The phone number is 440-574-5436 if anyone is interested. Their website is interesting also...
Full Circle Fuels.

I didn't mean we shouldn't do it. I just think to get a usable product without vehicle modification you need to convert the oil into a usable form. The question is where do you make the mod? The car or the fuel? It makes more sense to create a fuel usable by a stock vehicle than to mod the vehicle and introduce another layer of complexity to an already overly complex and expensive piece of machinery.

The units don't cost that much and I have even seen them on ebay for $1000 used. Here is an example of some of the equipment:

http://www.biodieselgear.com/equipment/index.htm

In fact if I had the room I would do it myself but, alas, there's no room left at the inn with all my other projects.

Hi,
What I know about Diesel and Biodiesel is:

Diesel is 100% from refinery oil. Takes less crude to make a gallon but it is priced higher than premium gas. Go figure.

Soybean (or other) Oil is 100% from plants. If you want to run your vehicle on this you need to alter your vehicle to have 2 tanks and place Diesel in 1 and Soybean (or other) oil in the other. See: http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuel ... _%2020.pdf and http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuel ... Opaper.pdf for a long list of precautions. During the first few minutes of operation and the last few minutes you run on Diesel. This gets the motor going and then clears the system out when you are ending your trip. It seems this would cost about $1,500 to have the conversion done. At $3.50 a gallon I have to burn 430 gallons of fuel to pay for the conversion. I use about 18 gallons a week so the conversion would pay for itself in a little more than half a year. I would guess the tank of Diesel would last you the better part of a year. Way cool! Of course you still need the equipment to make Biofuel from old cooking oil (Mr. Hoffert said this was about $1,000.) So, I would guess for an average person the payback would be approximately 1 year. This does not account for the extra benefit of not needing all that foreign oil.

Biodiesel often mixed with Diesel and sold at the pump as a blend. The amount of Soybean Oil (or whatever the Bio fuel is) added is reflected in the Blend. There is a large environment benefit with as little as 2% Bio fuel (B2). For what I read you can run up to 20% Bio fuel (B20) without any conversion to your vehicle. This is what I’m doing right now. It costs little to use (I have to plan my fillups when my normal business takes me near a BioDiesel station) and should benefit the environment. In addition to the Oberlin station I see there is a Frank’s Sunoco just south of 480 (5391 State Rd. Parma, OH) which sells B20.

I would really like to see our City making a commitment to use Biodiesel in the B20 range. Perhaps, if the city helped by creating a market we could get a station in town to carry it.

I'm going to think about biting the bullet on the conversion but till then I'll try to buy B20 at the pump.

If I remember correctly Bio diesel at the pump is safe to purchase. You pay all the appropriate taxes on it at the pump just like you would any fuel that you purchase for your car.

If you make your own bio fuel and the government finds out about it - you may be subject to fines and arrest. So be careful. I'm not sure how you account for the home made bio fuel and account for it and pay the road tax on it.

Lynn Farris wrote:If I remember correctly Bio diesel at the pump is safe to purchase. You pay all the appropriate taxes on it at the pump just like you would any fuel that you purchase for your car.

If you make your own bio fuel and the government finds out about it - you may be subject to fines and arrest. So be careful. I'm not sure how you account for the home made bio fuel and account for it and pay the road tax on it.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d08_1181765099

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/03 ... man_fi.php

Hi,
Given the title of this thread, I'll expand the topic.

I was in a Borders in Strongsville this week and went to the restroom. They had a Sloan waterless urinal there. No bad smell and no water, other than that contributed by yours truly. This is a super idea that I recommend for Lakewood to use at all its mens rooms. I would also suggest Lakewood businesses take a serious look at these. I do not know what they cost or how they work but they have to be much cheaper to operate and maintain.

Please, Mayor-elect Fitzgerald put this on the list of things to consider.

Hi,
Last night I visited our beautiful new Library and was a bit saddened to see old-fashion water urinals there. Then as I was leaving the Library I was thinking about all the taxpayer paid construction and subsequent ongoing maintenance we will be paying, and I don't believe any of it employed waterless urinals.

What a lost opportunity at the Library and at all our new Schools for the taxpayers of Lakewood.

Don:

When planning the library in 2004, I asked that the project consider the feasibility of waterless urinals, along with other associated green initiatives. In fact, trustees visited a site where these were in use and spoke to maintenance staff about maintenance issues.

At that time there were unsettled maintenance cost and odor issues with the technology, especially in a high use public site. Money saved on water can easily be spent on recovering from acts of vandals.

When making decisions on applications in constructing a public site, one must analyze cost and benefits in light of the current functionality of any such systems.

The timing on the development of waterless urinals was not right for this particular construction schedule.

I am not so certain maintenance costs on waterless urinals will prove as low as you are anticipating.

Time and analysis of field experience and operating costs will tell.

I am sorry for sad experience.

Kenneth Warren
Director
Lakewood Public Library