The Observation Deck

Has the "broken window" of Lakewood taken the form of public urnination? In the past six months the incidences of public uriniation have become more and more common. Examples:

Case: Young married couple, new baby, lovely home, sitting on front porch in early evening - across the street they watch as a twelve year old walks outside and relieves himself on the side of the house.

Case: Young professional driving to work, 7:30 a.m., witnesses man relieving himself on Lake and Belle.

Case: Madison Park, early evening, young men using trees instead of restrooms.

Just a few examples but there are more. In each case, the city was notified. The public health implications are enormous but the social aspects of this phenomenon are even more alarming. Why do these people think this is behavior that will be tolerated in Lakewood?

Packs of unsupervised youth and young adults, intimidating residents and literally marking their territory. What is the answer?

I'm sorry, but nothing new. Particularily for the residents who live near bars. It has been discussed with council how people have to treat their lawns with lime because of all the public urination. I know that Councilwoman Madigan was grossed out by this.

I swear we wouldn't need a police levy if we just ticketed all the drunks leaving bars disturbing the peace, driving under the influence and participating in public urination. Heck, we could most likely pave a few more streets with all the money we could earn.

The police chief two or three ago, said he would arrest the people who participate in public urination. We used to hear about games they would play in our parking lot - stepping back farther and farther to hit the mark. But we seemed to never be able to get anyone to do anything about it.

I've chased them off our property. It is a public health issue and it is a huge problem which we really need to get under control.

free roaming deputy dogs.

http://www.thebreedsofdogs.com/KUVASZ.htm

http://www.thebreedsofdogs.com/OWCZAREK_PODHALANSKI.htm

http://www.thebreedsofdogs.com/HOVAWART.htm

http://www.thebreedsofdogs.com/MAREMMA_SHEEPDOG.htm

They'll work for bones, and aren't afraid of being sued. They can be trained to rough up people urinating in public or talking ghetto-like or talking carnie-meth-head like.

Lynn Farris wrote:I'm sorry, but nothing new. Particularily for the residents who live near bars. It has been discussed with council how people have to treat their lawns with lime because of all the public urination. I know that Councilwoman Madigan was grossed out by this.

I swear we wouldn't need a police levy if we just ticketed all the drunks leaving bars disturbing the peace, driving under the influence and participating in public urination. Heck, we could most likely pave a few more streets with all the money we could earn.

The police chief two or three ago, said he would arrest the people who participate in public urination. We used to hear about games they would play in our parking lot - stepping back farther and farther to hit the mark. But we seemed to never be able to get anyone to do anything about it.

I've chased them off our property. It is a public health issue and it is a huge problem which we really need to get under control.

Lynn, Bob and I lived four houses from Just the Place on Madison when we first moved to Lakewood. I know about people in your bushes, yard, street etc. Funny, when our street complained, the police chief and the city councilman worked together to help us fix it. When the owner, who lived in Avon Lake, laughed at us, they helped us get the petitions to dry the precinct. Very effective tactic for bad bar owners.

However, people urinating in broad daylight on public streets and in the parks is something new to me and to others. This smacks of a whole different paradigm. It must be addressed NOW!

Suzanne Metelko wrote:What is the answer?

Strong mother and father figures with big paddles. Or good role models? A society that isn't so liberal? Come down hard on those that have committed crimes and have done wrong?

Case:
St. Patrick's day a year or two ago. A neighbors' underage drinking son and friends urinate on his bushes in front of his house in plain view. He's cool.

Case:
This Spring I watched a guy standing at a bus stop at about Detriot and Elbur urinate while he and his female companion stood watching. In plain view. Cars driving by and all. What an idiot.

Case:
Kid in first case above urinates in the backyard of another neighbors house in front of the adults during one of many parties. All are drinking. All supplying alcohol to the underage drinkers. Still do. He's cool. Bet he gets all the chicks...

Every time I hear about someone urinating in public or doing really stupid things, I think of this true story I witnessed: employee was being reprimanded by his supervisor. Employee said something to the effect of 'I didn't know that was wrong'. Supervisor replied 'well, I don't have to tell you it's wrong to pee in the middle of the floor do I?'. I guess some people really don't have the sense to know better...

Joe, you add more fuel to the fire that this is a shift in community expectations. People should be up in arms. Where is the indignation? Where is the leadership? Who's in charge?

Joe Ott wrote: A society that isn't so liberal?

Uh, I think polls and elections for at least last 6 years would prove otherwise but there you go. Liberals pee on trees, Conservatives just chop them down!

Seriously, though, that is a headache. Unless a) average citizens call folks on this or b) a cop just happens to catch folks in the act, what else is there to do? Post signs that say, "Don't urinate" in the parks? Sounds like more grist for the "police levy" folks so we can literally put a cop on every corner.

I do wonder if the foot/bike police model would help in these situations. Police cruising through the city see a very different town than the ones on bikes or who walk a beat. Maybe a traditional "beat cop" that walks Detroit, Madison and maybe around a couple of the major parks. It would help with so many things since much of the behavior problems can be seen in parks, near businesses, and so on.

Other than prevention, what else can citizenry do if they don't have a chance or are too frightened (understandably) to engage directly?

I think electrical wire should be stealthily installed in areas of frequent urination:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wrKCAcqC3g

Suzanne Metelko wrote:People should be up in arms. Where is the indignation? Where is the leadership? Who's in charge?

In a democratic society, we are in charge! That is the hard part of living in such a society because we really have only ourselves, whatever that means, to blame. People really want and desire a benevolent dictator form of government where fingers can continually be pointed upward until it reaches the top and the axes start to fall on then necks of ne'er do wells.

Fact is, though, we have to decide what kind of society we would like to live in. Do we really want a cop on every corner? Cameras on every corner? The Great Society shouldn't need that but barring that, what else can we do? Police can only be in so many places at once and I for one really want them catching rapists, burglars and murderers. Do we need a second tier of law enforcement to tackle deadbeat landlords, public urinators, loud-mouth kids, loiterers, etc.? Maybe we do? I think it would be nice to get a square picture of our current police force, how many are working at a time, how they basically support the city and so on. Then decide if that is enough or do we want them to do more. The police will do more if we give them more resources. But how far do we want to go?

That was the best laugh I've had all day.

Phil, I didn't make my point. What I meant is we as a society are not tough enough on people who do wrong. Whether it's a drunk driver who kills someone, a bank robber, a child molester, or just a kid acting up in school.

Just my opinion. It's worth what ya paid for it...

sharon kinsella wrote:That was the best laugh I've had all day.

How about the European Solution?

Years ago (many) I was stationed in Germany.

Wooden enclosures were placed along the streets at regular intervals. The enclosures were open on the bottom and stood about three feet high. Inside the enclosure was a metal urinal that emptied into a pipe that drained directly onto the street. The beauty of this type of system was that the person urinating was covered from chest to knees which meant we could wave at shoppers while they walked by.

Could this system work in Lakewood? I don't know if this is a project for Citistat or Mainstreet.

Phil Florian:Uh, I think polls and elections for at least last 6 years would prove otherwise but there you go.

Did you miss the 2004 election?? How sad for the dems

Republicans just throw people in jail. It would literally be cheaper and probably more effective to pay the convicts to stay home and watch tv and take some thorazine once in a while.

For these small nuisances you've just got to develop sprinting speed. Run up and smack them on the back of the head.

ryan costa wrote:Republicans just throw people in jail. It would literally be cheaper and probably more effective to pay the convicts to stay home and watch tv and take some thorazine once in a while.

For these small nuisances you've just got to develop sprinting speed. Run up and smack them on the back of the head.

Are you speaking form personal experience?