The Observation Deck

Am I understanding this levy correctly? Has it really been proposed to increase the taxes of property owners further? The average property owner in Lakewood pays $900 more than our counterparts just south of us. If it really is so minimal (just a cup of coffee a month) then why don't they have some bake sales and do some fundraising or charge a minimal fee. When the value of my property has really increased due to the great schools we can stop this additionally "tuition" and the city can have the relatively small bump up from the amount that is paid on my more valuable home. Sure, theoretically the property owner should benefit in the future from a better school system. Until that happens and my 3000 sq ft double is actually worth $200,000 (based on actual appraisals not just because the city or county decides to increase my "value" by 25%) then I'm not agreeing to pay anything more than I am already.
Saying that this plan for the schools has been under budget misses the full picture. I believe in sales they call it bait and switch. Telling us that it's only a couple of bucks ignores the fact the many are already fed up with the high taxes.

Shawn Juris wrote:Am I understanding this levy correctly? Has it really been proposed to increase the taxes of property owners further? The average property owner in Lakewood pays $900 more than our counterparts just south of us. If it really is so minimal (just a cup of coffee a month) then why don't they have some bake sales and do some fundraising or charge a minimal fee. When the value of my property has really increased due to the great schools we can stop this additionally "tuition" and the city can have the relatively small bump up from the amount that is paid on my more valuable home. Sure, theoretically the property owner should benefit in the future from a better school system. Until that happens and my 3000 sq ft double is actually worth $200,000 (based on actual appraisals not just because the city or county decides to increase my "value" by 25%) then I'm not agreeing to pay anything more than I am already.
Saying that this plan for the schools has been under budget misses the full picture. I believe in sales they call it bait and switch. Telling us that it's only a couple of bucks ignores the fact the many are already fed up with the high taxes.

Shawn


This post pains me to no end.

I will save the lecture on buying things you can afford, and focus on the comment, "why don't they have some bake sales..."

What is the message we send to developers, and people wanting to move into Lakewood? We started this project but walked away. How will that effect your"3000 sq ft double is actually worth $200,000 (based on actual appraisals not just because the city or county decides to increase my "value" by 25%)" house?

These school along with the library are crowning achievements in this entire region. As your friends and clients in Westlake. I get around more now than before, and everyone is amazed at Lakewood's commitment to our schools and libraries. These are two reasons why the rest of the area see us as intelligent, well informed, motivated residents.

You tried to sell hot chocolate, cookies. How did it work for the Jaycees? Is that really how you want your baby's education paid for?

This post is so disappointing from a person running for the Board of, The Chamber Of Commerce!

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Jim O'Bryan wrote:I will save the lecture on buying things you can afford, .........This post is so disappointing from a person running for the Board of, The Chamber Of Commerce!

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The City of Lakewood has some of the highest taxes in the entire country. For those high taxes we get no more than people a few miles to the West. In many cases we get less.

More and more people are taking your advice, "on buying things you can afford". They are moving out of town. Is that the new building the brand message? YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE HERE!!

I see that a member of the school board and the City administration are seeking seats on the Chamber Board. Is that to guarantee two votes to endorse the next round of tax increases?

As I understand it, People in Westlake or Rocky River pay higher taxes, if only because they bought their homes at much higher prices.

In Lakewood you buy a home for a few ten thousand or hundred thousand dollars less. That's a loan you aren't paying interest on, or savings you will earn interest on.

It is taken for granted that everyone should own a home and sell it for a profit everytime they change careers or retire. This is actually a very small window in American history, and this norm will slide away.

Strickland is pushing a property tax break for seniors or retirees. That should ease the tax burden on people with fixed incomes who've already paid their dues and probably don't have kids in school or get police called on them often.

Can we all please remember that we will lose the state monies if this does not pass...monies from taxes we have already paid that will not be returned to our community?

And to get back to the nuts and bolts...

This is our family's last year at Lincoln Elementary School. We have had a wonderful experience and will miss the school. But we won't miss sending our children to a school with bathroom facilities only in the basement and outdated classrooms.

The method that the State of Ohio uses to fund education was found to be unconstitutional before George Voinovich became governor and the state government has yet to remedy this problem. Let's work at the state level to lessen our tax burden. Let's not prove some point by voting down an Issue that is truly needed and will only end up punishing our own community. Those state funds will end up somewhere, let's make sure they end up here.

Bill Call wrote:

Jim O'Bryan wrote:I will save the lecture on buying things you can afford, .........This post is so disappointing from a person running for the Board of, The Chamber Of Commerce!

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The City of Lakewood has some of the highest taxes in the entire country. For those high taxes we get no more than people a few miles to the West. In many cases we get less.

More and more people are taking your advice, "on buying things you can afford". They are moving out of town. Is that the new building the brand message? YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE HERE!!

I see that a member of the school board and the City administration are seeking seats on the Chamber Board. Is that to guarantee two votes to endorse the next round of tax increases?

Bill


Do you have any facts that support this statement.

I believe Lakewood is leading the area in home sales.


FWIW


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So are we trying to become the highest taxed city? Is 2nd highest just not good enough for us? I have heard a variety of visions and goals but this one wasn't identified yet. Imagine the flood of new arrivals that will show up here because of some buildings. If only we could recruit James Earl Jones to produce some commercials to attract the throngs of people who would come here for reasons they don't understand to spend far more tax dollars to receive less in return. Hopefully there will be enough "brain drain" to convince those remaining to drop their stakes and live here.
Now if we could have a plan that showed how these structures were going to create scholars and give reason for others to be a part of it then maybe we would be onto something. I hadn't seen that so far though. While my research has been rather superficial, all that I've seen is Phase II, more money needed. My question is why wasn't this all asked for at one time? If it's because of the misguided state regulations, then fair enough just say it. The further question is why should we expect that there won't be continuous increases requested. The city doesn't seem to have a fix in the works for our financial woes so why would investments in entities that do not produce income make sense?
All that aside the buildings all look very pretty.

Now if we could have a plan that showed how these structures were going to create scholars and give reason for others to be a part of it then maybe we would be onto something. I hadn't seen that so far though

It's been out there....did you take a tour? Did you see the improvements geared solely towards education? Did you look? I'll bet not.

Jeff

Oh good more "discourse" (advisory board insulting anyone that disagrees). What I heard was that there would be amazing structures but didn't catch the part where they would be full of students that were miraculously changed because they were in a fancy new building. Boy, if I missed that, then I admit my error. Did the elaborate plan really include a process to create "stepford" students? I'd love to hear more, time is running out to change my mind and vote for this issue. If every vote counts then information would be far more effective.

Considered in its entirety the school construction project is worthy of support. This bond issue and the next should be approved.

While the buildings were generally well maintained they were still going to need substantial updating and improvement in the coming years. That updating won't get any cheaper or easier as time goes by. Remember, we are on our own.

I tried voting twice on the new voting machines but I got an error message.

One election day years ago I was shaking hands with a county commissioner. As he pumped my right hand he asked if I had voted for him that day. I raised my left hand spreading my fingers wide and said "Five times". He stopped pumping.

I liked the projectors that drop out of the ceiling of every room. the wireless internet, the great libraries that will be filled with useful information. While sitting in my government and economics class taking 4 pages of notes, I noticed that the old projectors (which my teacher already had to replace since I've been in the class) just shake and are blurry. I thought to myself "if this issue passes, less kids will have headaches and feel dizzy after taking so many notes."

Everything in these buildings is new and up to date. I went to McKinley for elementary school and remember how rusty, old and disgusting everything was. no more of that. I remember at Horace Mann wiping dust off of the walls of my art class. you dare not lean against the wall in that school. I remember my freshman year at LHS when a cockroach fell from the steel beams onto a girls head and got stuck in her hair. (probably my favorite moment of my freshman year). My sophomore year was full of asbestos. I remember when they closed 2/3 of the new building and had asbestos detection meters at every corner of the hallway. I remember taking a math test and hearing the meters beep, and beep and beep some more. And my junior year we spent the time at lunch in the L-room lobby dodging cockroaches and ants. There will be no more of that, either. No more leaking ceilings, or windows that let in the cold december breeze.

Although the class of 2007 has 12 days of school left, it is in our hands that we vote for this issue so that many classes from this point on have a clean and productive environment to spend 8 hours of their day in.

Can the parents of the Cleveland kids who attend school in Lakewood vote for Issue 4?

I had asked Shawn "did you take a tour? Did you see the improvements geared solely towards education? Did you look? I'll bet not. "


His response:

Oh good more "discourse" (advisory board insulting anyone that disagrees). What I heard was that there would be amazing structures but didn't catch the part where they would be full of students that were miraculously changed because they were in a fancy new building. Boy, if I missed that, then I admit my error. Did the elaborate plan really include a process to create "stepford" students? I'd love to hear more, time is running out to change my mind and vote for this issue. If every vote counts then information would be far more effective.

Which I translate as,"No, I did not take a tour" "No, I did not see the improvements geared for education". "No, I did not look".

Hard for me to see where this is insulting.

Jeff

Shawn Juris wrote:Oh good more "discourse" (advisory board insulting anyone that disagrees).

Shawn

I love it when conversations start off like this. You will be good for the Chamber!

The schools, are set up to do marvelous things. Many of the things you complain about have been covered very well in the new schools had you actually gone through them.

Trouble makers are not kept out of the rooms, and put in special areas where schooling pressures can be applied, and hopefully breakthroughs can be made.

The special Ed rooms are set up with everything special ed students need, from easy to use lockers, to reflected lighting that has been proven to be best for children with Autism.

The wiring for the schools is not only incredible, but easy to service which has huge dividends.

Now I am sure it was all different when you were a kid. NOT. But these are schools we should be proud of. The city we can be proud of. I guess it is only the ones running for the chamber that dislike the city. Go figure, most don't live or work here anyway.

Me I like to finish what I start.


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Jim:

In fairness to the Lakewood Chamber of Commerce, I would note that executive director Kathy Berkshire sent out an e-mail to members encouraging us to vote Yes on Issue 4.

Yesterday I read something Mayor Harbarger had written in the early 90s on the value of public schools to Lakewood. He noted that Lakewood's property values will stand or fall on three pillars: safety, schools and services. He knew Lakewood's niche, and the slow process of rolling families and incremental investments through vintage starter housing stock.

Turn off the young population which sees hope in new schools and we will ramp up the absentee landlord holdings and difficult caseload?

Stop paying the piper pillars, and there is one certain direction.

When we say, world, you know what, the children inhabiting our city are not worth it, they are hopeless thugs and the ungodly spawn of Section 8, then we are taking both the moral measure of ourselves and value of lifestyles and valuation of real property, and thereby setting the stage for a drop to the bottom.

Kenneth Warren