The jumping off discussion area for the rest of the Deck. All things Lakewood.
Please check out our other sections. As we refile many discussions from the past into
their proper sections please check them out and offer suggestions.
This is an excellent documentary that examines genetically modified organisms, and what dangers they pose. It also explains problems with huge factory farms, and promotes utilizing Community Supported Agriculture programs and promoting the local farmer. For anyone who eats Explains things in easy to understand terms.
If you have netflix, they have it there.
If any of you have seen it, what did you think?
~Annie
When I saw the farmers destroying their seeds that took them a lifetime to develop, fearing that they had been mixed with Monsanto's, it broke my heart. It made me think about the farmer's here in Ohio - we have to save them!!
Is this the one about Monsanto and the canola seeds, that they have the patent on? also bits on salmon, corn, killer seeds, etc?
.
Yep, that's the one.
Brian
One of the reasons, I like Congressman Kucinich. Every year since his first, I believe, he has been trying to get "Food Laws" pushed through. mandatory labeling of Genetically Engineered Food, radiated, etc.
The American Public does not understand the true depth of this problem already. It will only get worse. This is worse than global warming, not to make light of that. This is a nightmare we have let out of the bottle in the last 15 years, not hundred. This is one we can stop right now.
While I like the idea of saving farmers, we should also remember it is saving us. There is NO testing, so the humans become the guinea pigs to find out if eating blow-fish poison, genetically engineered in corn, will help or kill us!
Thanks for the heads up. I might own a copy, maybe a TV night at Bela! Another good piece is "The World Banquet" about the nightmare of countries falling prey of the World Bank, and how it affects lives and food.
.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system." Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it." His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Yes - that's the scary part about genetic modification that I didn't really understand before watching the movie. Monsanto claims that their genetically modified corn seeds help stop world hunger because they resist drought and pests in underdeveloped worlds. The catch is that after 1 season, the plants/seeds die (corn suicide); they are single season crops. After 1 year, do these remote African villages get another giant shipment of seeds from friendly Monsanto? I doubt it....
catch is that after 1 season, the plants/seeds die (corn suicide)
Which is essentially a truism for any of our forays into genetic engineering. Early engineering included "natural" cross breeding....horses and donkeys=mules. The offspring of such engineering is almost always infertile.
But, perhaps that is a good thing. A built in safety maesure so that genetically engineered products have a limited lifespan and are consequently "self controlled"? It will be far scarier when a genetically altered crop is able to cross-pollinate and screw up everything.
Jeff
To wander this country and this world looking for the best barbecue â€â€
well sort of - the cross pollinating IS happening with other crops, but the corn suicide gene is another problem. The researchers were unsure if the suicide gene would cross pollinate with other plants, causing other crops to die in large numbers. In my eyes, it was a "band aid" for hunger - giving people a single season crop that may in the end make hunger in their region worse.
To back up Annie's comments. These are not hybrids that are infertile. these are genetically coded seeds, that are infertile so that farmers become hooked on Monsanto.
What is worse Canola growers in Canada have lost their farms in lawsuits with Monsanto, because seeds, Monsanto "owns" have shown up crossbred in other farms. Most within a half mile of a Monsanto argi farm. Simple cross pollination. Most of these farmers have been fined so much they end up signing over their farms. It is thought that no Canola exists in Canada that does not have a strain of the Monsanto gene in it!
Another catastrophe is Salmon, something near and dear to your heart. A salmon farm with genetically engineered salmon let thousands of salmon loose into the wild by openning the wrong gate. the genes are now showing up in wild salmon. Is this good. What is better farmed raise or wild?
An even more serious problem is that there is NO TESTING, the rules now leave any testing up to the owner of the strain. It is not mandatory, it is not even suggested.
As these are things that can NEVER be cleaned up or reversed, they should go through testing.
FWIW
.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system." Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it." His Holiness The Dalai Lama
There is speculation some genetically engineered crops are partially responsible for die offs of honey bees.
Die Offs of honey bees result in much lower yields for many types of crops.
a common genetic modification use is to make plants produce pesticide-like chemicals themselves. Another is to give plants immunity to pesticides, which are then used much more abundantly.
ryan costa wrote:There is speculation some genetically engineered crops are partially responsible for die offs of honey bees.
Die Offs of honey bees result in much lower yields for many types of crops.
a common genetic modification use is to make plants produce pesticide-like chemicals themselves. Another is to give plants immunity to pesticides, which are then used much more abundantly.
I believe the movie refers to this as the worst environmental disaster of all time.
FWIW
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system." Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it." His Holiness The Dalai Lama
At the risk of honking off the crew here and marking myself for shunning, I'm going to take up for Monsanto here. Full disclosure ... I work for an agriculture publishing company doing trade magazines, so Monsanto does from time to time buy ads. I've done plenty of looking into this from all sides, including (horror!) actually visiting and touring the Monsanto facility. I've also travelled the country, visiting growers, consultants, retailers who sell chemicals, fertilizer, seed, etc. to growers. So, I know and have experienced quite a bit of this. Allow me to share a few factoids:
Biotech seed has been around since 1997.
Today, approximately 90% of all soybean acres and more than 50% of corn acres carry the glyphosate resistance gene. These are crops that are resistant to glyphosate, allowing farmers to spray one chemistry all season and control weeds. Roundup Ready technology, as it is called, has taken more than a billion dollars out of the herbicide market, herbicides that would have otherwise been sprayed on fields across the midwest.
The "pesticide secretion" that one poster referred is Bacillus thuringiensis, or Bt. This genetic expression prevents rootworm and corn borer from destroying the corn plant, saving about a billion dollars per year on insecticides applied in farm fields.
Monsanto is now working on issues such as drought tolerance, a trait that everyone in ag agrees is incredibly important to corn growers.
Another poster complained that Monsanto charges farmers extra for the seed they sell them, and does not allow them to reuse seed. The reason for this is that Monsanto is trying to protect its technolgy investment. And don't cry for the farmers too hard. The technology fee is more than offset by the savings they achieve vs. using a conventional growing system with several pesticide treatments. Just try to tell a farmer he can't grow Roundup Ready soybeans. He'll complain about Monsanto one minute, but the next he'll be swearing by the technology. It's human nature.
Is Monsanto perfect? No. But they should be given due credit for some amazing advances in agriculture. As for whether this is some kind of "environmental disaster" of epic proportions, I guess I would be interested in seeing the hard, non-emotional science behind that assertion.
Finally, I take exception to the assertion that all large farms are bad. I have met and interviewed a number of these folks. They seem to be reviled because they run farms like businesses, using the latest technology and thinking and running profitable, clean, environmentally responsible operations. I could put you in touch with some incredible folks if you're really interested in learning more.
I realize that these words are likely lost on the posters here, but there are many many "viewers" who are sitting silent and watching these posts. . .they deserve as many points of view as possible. Agriculture, like most industries, ain't perfect. But I believe we're getting better at it in many ways, not worse.
Thanks Paul - but had you seen the movie, you might have a different opinion. I am a registered dietitian, and we are licensed to use 'evidence based medicine' for our practice. While I understand that science is a field where we are constantly learning and conclusions/recommendations frequently change due to new evidence, we have enough evidence to know that gmo's are being used as a money making device for big companies - ie Monsanto, rather than for the good of the people. GMO's are a field where technology and science have come together - where scientists thought more about what they can do rather than should they do it.
Monsanto sells the Roundup Ready seed; they also sell the Roundup - which kills fish and frogs when ground water runs into streams and rivers. Monsanto also doesn't tell the farmers that if they use the Roundup ready seed, they will actually end up spraying MORE than less. This ends up costing the farmers more.
Another thing that I find ethically and morally wrong with Monsanto (and other agribusinesses like Cargill) is that they patent genes. One scientist in the movie describes it: Monsanto patents the gene in the corn, so they own all the corn grown with that gene; the gene cross-pollinates with bees, so Monsanto then owns all the bees with that gene; animals may also become cross-bred with a gene from this corn, also becoming the property of Monsanto;people eat the corn....will it stop with people??
The fees for using the seed are willingly paid by farmers who wish to use the Round up ready seed. The problem is that Monsanto sues farmers for using their patented seed without paying the "fee" - the farmers don't even know that these seeds are growing on their farms. The farmers depicted in the movie would likely pay the fee if they chose to use the seed in the first place. But one farmer discusses how a neighbor (who uses roundup ready seed) had a bunch blow off his truck while driving by. This grew on the other farmer's property and Monsanto found out about it. They sued him for everything he had worked for (using all of their retirement $$) and scaring the farmer so badly that he resorted to destroying his seed.
I wonder if Monsanto is working on a honey bee friendly "chemistry" - or better yet, maybe they'll develop a honey bee "free" seed, that doesn't require pollination - maybe you should recommend this idea, since their chemicals/genetic modification is killing off all the honey bees (we have 80% less than a decade ago).
I think it's a little insulting to say that your words are lost on these posters. I for one was trained to learn the facts before jumping to conclusions. The problem, we don't know what all the long term results from using gmo's and pesicides/herbicides are going to be.
One thing that I know, organically grown, non-gmo has not killed any honey bees. We have so many chemicals going into our gmo farms that it may be difficult to tell if the harm is from the gmo's or the chemicals. Organic farms are safer; better for the soil; better for the bees; and better for people. Utilizing a CSA - purchasing from the local farmer can help minimize the requirement for these chemicals/genes that have unknown repercussions.
Another problem with spraying is the soil degradation - What do these big agri-companies say about this problem?
Explains things in easy to understand terms. 