The Observation Deck

From the Plain Dealer:

"Lakewood officials said city workers had to retrieve 99 carts in 2005 and 170 so far this year, at an estimated cost of about $35 each to the city."

http://www.cleveland.com/ohio/plaindeal ... xml&coll=2


$35? Is the city renting a mobile crane to pick up the carts? Are they subcontracting this out to Baker Boys tow trucks? Are LPD detectives scouring the city in search of the elusive stolen cart?

Doug

My brother and I found 2 and returned them at the the cost of 10 minutes and .50 cents in gas (estimate).

I know some certain apartment building(s) in Lakewood that intentionally harbor grocery carts inside for use by staff or residents. I suppose it is possible but unlikely that these carts were purchased legitimately. There are also other buildings that have carts that are a little different and not the kind grocery stores use.

Doug

The Administration informed us during committee hearings that the cost to pick up the cart, bring it back to the refuse facility, log it in and send a violation letter to business was $30. I am not certain on these numbers, but if you think about a unionized person at $17-$25 an hour, plus the clerk/secretary time, etc. It is close to an hours work, at least that is what the Administration told us. The current charge is $5. So the real question became, "Do we want to spend income/property tax dollars collecting carts or should we charge the fee to the source?"

This issue might seem silly, but isn't $2500 a year important to the city budget. In isolation it isn't, but with a litany of other sources of funding it is very important. Additionally, we cannot forget about the residents and businesses whose properties become littered with them. It is a piece of my own personal war on blight. Please consider that we are also working on more substantive issues such as vacant housing and have previously passed a chronic nuisance ordinance which I also sponsored.

I understand the cost to the city, but why go through the bureaucracy of bringing the cart back to the refuse facility. If it is obviously a Marcs cart, then the city employee drops it off in the Marcs lot at a cost of maybe 5 minutes.

Also, isn't this another example of the business unfriendly environment of Lakewood. From sign laws to public parking, if we want to bring retail to this city then the administration should facilitate the companies, not nickle and dime them. At least we have an Aldi's (maybe) coming to 117th and they make you deposit a quarter for the cart.

Ryan Patrick Demro wrote:This issue might seem silly, but isn't $2500 a year important to the city budget. In isolation it isn't, but with a litany of other sources of funding it is very important. Additionally, we cannot forget about the residents and businesses whose properties become littered with them. It is a piece of my own personal war on blight. Please consider that we are also working on more substantive issues such as vacant housing and have previously passed a chronic nuisance ordinance which I also sponsored.

Ryan

Why don't we sell them to the Rego Brothers? I hear they are opening new stores.

While I admit every penny counts, so does every second especially when you pay union scale wages.

I understand the war on blight (a word that should be stricken from Lakewood's dictionary), but I would rather see you putting teeth into the nusiance law.

Would we make more money as a city if people that stole carts had to get liscences for them like bikes? I remember when "Larry the Racker" had a shopping cart I bet he didn't buy. Right there is a quick $25.00. Maybe we could charge more as it is used for business.

Maybe we could have done a couple thousand better with the AT&T deal. Some say millions better.

Just having a little fun.

Every little bit helps when we need $50,000,000 for Clifton Blvd water project.

.

Why doesn't the city just ticket people when they see them pushing a cart down the street? No warnings,just ticket them. The cost of the tickets can pay for the return of the cart and the fine will be the deterent.

john crino wrote:Why doesn't the city just ticket people when they see them pushing a cart down the street? No warnings,just ticket them. The cost of the tickets can pay for the return of the cart and the fine will be the deterent.

Not complicated enough.

We still have the "Larry The Raker" problem.

You back?

Should I add your name to the Political Hoakie Pokie Sheet?


.

Grocery Baggers make about 5.30 an hour, even when they are in the UFCW.

Assuming most carts are within 2 blocks of the shopping marts it is reasonable for them to retrieve them.

If they are further away the carts were obviously Stolen, so the stores are victims of theft and should not be fined.

What would be the best way to handle a granny who needs to transport groceries and use a walker who finds it easier to take a shopping cart home than to take a bus and haul bags or get a little basket for her walker or drag a hand cart?

Is there an entrepreneurial opportunity that we are not seeing?

Can anyone believe this story has such legs?

DL,

The story has legs because the media says it has legs. I offered other more substantive things that we are doing to them and they ignored me only to insist on carts.

To your original point, granny can call our Division of Aging for Assistance with her groceries. That is part of the tax bill.

David,

Why don't we just have no business regulations? Ooops, reality check. There are technologies available to solve the problem. Like every corporate organization, they aren't going to implement it until it hits them in the pocketbook. In many ways this is like bar patrons walking out with bottles that they then leave on treelawns in the West End. Fortunately, we have some bar owners who have decided to take responsibility for the negative side effects of their establishments by sending an employee out to pick them up.

Should we send out public works crews to pick up the beer bottles also? Maybe this is where the big government/little government ideological split comes into play. I believe that you change the rules that drive behavior to achieve a desired result. Others believe that, through big government, you compensate for the undesired behaviors.

Hmm..now when was that story about the $3000.00 toilet seat purchased by taxpayers money?

Ryan Patrick Demro wrote:The story has legs because the media says it has legs. I offered other more substantive things that we are doing to them and they ignored me only to insist on carts.

Ryan

This is not all that surprising.

Remember the skate park saga. We all met for a friendly get together at City Hall, skaters, parents, supporters, you, Mayor George and others. It was a friendly night with everyone yucking it up and talking.

Next day Dave Sartin wrote it like it was another riot in Lakewood. During the "riot" I talked with Dave, he was laughing, never saw him hide from "the mob." When I read his report I felt like I had been to a different event.

They marginalize Lakewood because they want it.

Yet I do know of one publication that would have allowed you and Nicki, to frame the story, write the story, and build the brand. This paper even has a larger circulation in Lakewood than the Plain Dealer. With the same amount of energy, you could have reached more Lakewood voters. But why reach out to your constituents, when you can get a county wide audience for the personal scrapbook.

FWIW


.

I'm concerned about the suggestion that LPD ticket people with shopping carts with no warnings.

I don't think that's the answer to the problem.

And I suppose that it's disingenuous to wonder why the media picked up on this story because I understand that it seems somewhat silly, even though quality of life issues are important.