The Observation Deck

Mr. Timeski's post about the cost of garbage services, while a bit flawed, did in its symmetry, made me realize the fix Lakewood is in financially.

Mr. T interpolated from census data that the average Lakewood household pays about $600 in city income tax.

Now, let's take a cop making $40,000 a year (I know, arbitrary, but conservative arbitrary).

To give that cop a 3 percent raise in annual wages and benefits would cost the city $1,200.

That means either creating TWO new "average" households....or DOUBLING what the average HH pays in income tax.

The doubling is unlikely to happen.

So we see in stark numbers the need for more people working in the city, even if they don't live here.

The fact that income tax collections have remained flat for five years stunned me. That means the cost of all raises for all city workers, and any other inflationary increases, must be made up by property owners in the form of property tax increases (which unlike school taxes, automatically go up when property values increase)

Can we continue to expect this to happen? Any entity (business, charity, etc) where revenues are flat for five years is in deep doo-doo. Local government is no exception.

What do you all think about that?

Joan

I think there's a flaw in the analysis.

That means either creating TWO new "average" households....or DOUBLING what the average HH pays in income tax.

While you are correct that to offset the "raise" and keep present taxes level, you would need two new average households (actually two per police officer), failure to find those new households would not doubles the tax on the present taxpayers, as it is spread over a base significantly larger than one household per cop.

With that having been said, you are absolutely correct that flat revenues against increased expenses is a recipe for financial collapse.....and even more so the longer that situation continues.

Fortunately, the solution is simplicity itself! Either create more revenue, cut costs or a combination of the two. Now, exactly HOW you accomplish any of those options is considerably more difficult.

Jeff

Joan and Jeff

You both a serious flaw in the thinking.

Step outside the box, walk into the wonderland called the "Visionary Alignment for Lakewood." What if, there was a way to offer incentives instead of cash? What if instead of US backed dollars they were also paid in Community Currency(Grinders). this has worked in other cities including Ithaca and Toronto.

What if we took that run down house and and turned it into a unit for a city worker. With a low interest or no interest loan. That way the police could help pay their own raises.

The current plan will not work and cannot work. We have to go way outside the box, and renegotiate some of these contracts.

FWIW

Jim,

And when the community does not provide the goods and services that I require then the community currency is worth....???

What will it be backed by and who will make the investment of millions of dollars to back it? I know a LOT of city workers and until you tell me that the Bureau of Child support will accept the community currency, or their mortgage brokers, or their credit card & insurance companies, there is not a prayer that they will go for this. Even if it were only a small portion of their income... it still would be resisted because there are SO many that DONT live inside of Lakewood, and therefore, would have even less use for this.

On another topic (ahh... I must be masochistic today)...

The "Visionary Alignment' has one serious flaw in itself -

It represents the thoughts ideas and concepts of a very select, very tight knit group of individuals. And while their contributions is to be taken seriously and considered - it is not reflective of the community as a whole.

I know this will get me even further on your bad side - but until this 'alignment' includes a broad range of Lakewodites in a variety of socio-economic and ethnic background and situations, it is only the musings of a select few who feel that they have the intellectual ability to understand the ideologies, needs and wants of the many facets of this city despite their lack of personal experience with many of our more difficult social and economic issues.

Your thoughts and ideas are a welcome and much needed change of pace and can likely spawn the discussions that this city MUST have to survive; however, that does NOT mean that you reflect the desires of the majority.

JMO

**Ducking**

Peace,
~Charyn

Charyn Varkonyi wrote:And when the community does not provide the goods and services that I require then the community currency is worth....???

~Charyn

Maybe they could use US currency, or charge cards. The rough had it backed with silver. If it had happened, Lakewoodites holding currency would have tripled their worth.

While it is easy to throw out millions needed, those that have studied it think only hundreds of thousands would be needed if that.

But you are right, much better to live under a currency that declines by the hour that is backed with NOTHING, but a promise from some bankers than can file bankruptcy.

Charyn Varkonyi wrote:I know this will get me even further on your bad side - but until this 'alignment' includes a broad range of Lakewodites in a variety of socio-economic and ethnic background and situations, it is only the musings of a select few who feel that they have the intellectual ability to understand the ideologies, needs and wants of the many facets of this city despite their lack of personal experience with many of our more difficult social and economic issues.
~Charyn

Charyn

Did not know you were so up on the Visionary Alignment, it's members and it's ideas.

Could you please provide a list of the names?

Could you name 10 ideas?

Could you explain where these ideas come from?

How are they incubated?

How small and closed minded is this group?

Just curious.


.

Instead of attacking me - why dont you provide that information for everyone, Jim?

To be fair - that is MY understanding of the Aligment according to our coversations. It is an interpretation and my representation of those thihgs as hard fact was misleading and unfair.

Certainly, if I am incorrect you have the ability to post fully the creation, intentions, membership, processes and ideas of the Alignment.

I would if it were my baby.

~Charyn

Jeff Endress wrote:While you are correct that to offset the "raise" and keep present taxes level, you would need two new average households (actually two per police officer), failure to find those new households would not doubles the tax on the present taxpayers, as it is spread over a base significantly larger than one household per cop.

Sure, I understand that.
What I was trying to do was illustrate (in maybe oversimplified terms) the point that Lakewood is faced with either creating new taxpayers or putting a bigger lean on the ones we have.

What no one can argue is that income tax collections, which bumped up a bit during the 90s, have been flat since 2001. And since they account for 47% of the general fund, that makes for a dicey situation

It would be different if council could unilaterally enact an income tax increase. Sure, they might take the heat, but the heat of having to curtail city services might be worse. Eventually, they'd accept reality.

But in a system where citizens must raise their OWN taxes, getting that additional revenue is a tough nut to crack.

While it is easy to throw out millions needed, those that have studied it think only hundreds of thousands would be needed if that

Fair enough - but even at the lower number...

Who puts up the capital?

Peace,
~Charyn

Charyn

Who puts up the capital?

Bake sales.

Jeff

Only if you are the baker!!!

Peace,
~Charyn

Charyn Varkonyi wrote:Instead of attacking me - why dont you provide that information for everyone, Jim?

To be fair - that is MY understanding of the Aligment according to our coversations. It is an interpretation and my representation of those thihgs as hard fact was misleading and unfair.

Certainly, if I am incorrect you have the ability to post fully the creation, intentions, membership, processes and ideas of the Alignment.

I would if it were my baby.

~Charyn

Charyn

If I knew the answers I would post. But the reality is it is like water.
there is no solid group. It is a bunch of ideas that flow through many homes and offices throughout the city. There is NO single theory, outside that some items should be handled by citizens without the need to bring the overburden government in.

The people that speak of this are as varied as the city itself. When an idea is thrown out some of us(who knows who) go out and find the most expert people we can to do the drill down and see how it would apply to Lakewood.

NONE OF IT IS LAW.

Community currency would be 100% up to individuals who wanted to take part. THE FACT is the city cannot take part, neither can any Federal Bank. so the process would be private citizens embarking on a way to back, present and move it forward. Are you no against private enterpise?

The Cafe University was taken on by people I did not even know. All I knew was that a group of progressive people were spending their own time and money to try to bring a top level University to Lakewood. The University of Beijing, was mentioned. Again how does this differ from someone trying to bring in Applebees? It doesn't.

The Lakewood Observer is a brick in the pyramid, square, circle however you want to draw it. The thought was, Lakewoodites need to be better informed about the city and our options so that ALL OF US can better make decisions TOGETHER about the city's future?

It is NOT a secret society. IT IS NOT trying to run Lakewood, government, schools, life or anything else. It is trying to make Lakewood Better for all, through private programs that people can choose to take part in or not.

You have been at meetings with it's "members." You are part.

Let's be honest. I presented the Visionary Alignment in this thread as a way to work out of the box. It was then you who attacked me as leader of this secret society, trying to run the world without public input. Nothing could be farther from the truth.


.

There is a certain logical limitation to the idea that an economically viable city or region is one in which many more people work there than live there.

A similar logical limitation applies to the paradigm that a successful shopping center, mall, or district is one which draws a great portion of its customers from far around.

To get around this, price wars or massive tax abatements disappear the profit advantages or tax revenue generating advantages that succeeding in either pursuit yield. Therefore a new statement of goals is necessary. The goal was never to remain economically viable or profitable. It was to generate much more busy-ness. The spillover costs can be exported to third world resource wars.