The Observation Deck

Speaking of backyard trash pickup......

I've been doing one of those "informal surveys". LOL! I've been surprised how many people would give up that service if it would help stave off a tax increase.

Surprised, because I really thought it was one of those things that Lakewood held dear.

Many cities will distribute large wheeled receptacles to put on the treetlawn. Usually, these things are huge and can accomodate 4 30-gallon trash bags or more, more than enough for the average family.

It doesn't affect someone like me, in a mult-unit building with private pickup, but the reaction of Lakewood homeowners, particularly those who have lived in the vast majority of places who don't offer the service, was intirguing. Food for thought.

Joan Roberts wrote:Speaking of backyard trash pickup......

It doesn't affect someone like me, in a mult-unit building with private pickup, but the reaction of Lakewood homeowners, particularly those who have lived in the vast majority of places who don't offer the service, was intirguing. Food for thought.

Informal Survey - Glad to see we have had a small impact on one of my favorite residents.

Let me throw this out.

Before randomly asking people you see in the elevators of your condo. Take them or ask the people who live on the street the day of trash collection. The wind causes havoc with even the best trash containers. Blowing trash everywhere.

Near my house is one of those wonderful "group homes" the state has set up. This one would seem to care for mentally challenged adults. It is always a pleasure seeing them out in mass walking the neighborhoods. They would always stop to talk or play with the dog.

But Saturday night they would put their garbage out at the curb of West Clifton and Riverside. 10 bags, it would seem most should have some sort of "bio-hazard" label on them for what is contained in them.

How do I know?

Saturday about 1 am the local family of raccoons help open them for all to see. As the corner is almost always windy, many people down wind also get to share in the used hygiene products etc.

While it is easy to attack the cost of the program, and the city has moved to buying a couple new units. I was thinking it would be much better in the long run to buy out other used carts similar to ours as cities get rid of them.

Relatively fuel efficient, keeping a city safe, and clean. Hanging baskets, backyard pickup. You know where my vote falls.

FWIW


.

First of all - the cost of backyard trash collection cannot be compared to the cost of planters. The total cost of the planter program doesn't even begin to cover a fraction of one refuse and recycling employee! So why the correlation is being drawn escapes me.

Jim - you refer to the terrible messes that occur on trash night where there is not backyard collection. I might point out that there are a LOT of places in Lakewood where you have to pull your trash to the front anyway. Not to mention we have to put yard waste and recycling out there, so there is only an incremental difference in what gets placed out front.

Second, In most (admittedly not all) communities with contracted refuse collection they provide a VERY large wheeled bucket to place your trash in. They have secure lids and keep litter very well contained overnight while it awaits collection. They will also provide secure recycling containers which will actually IMPROVE the appearance of tree lawns during collection - eliminating all of those blue bags that fly everywhere and get poked through by vagrants who turn collected cans in for cash.

Another benefit is the fact that the collection company doesn't have nearly as many restrictions on how the trash is to be presented. Heavy? No Problem. Extra bags? No problem. Odd sizes? No problem. You put it out and they will take it... I only had one piece left behind when we cleaned the garage in Hermitage - and that was because it was recyclable.

The process is simple - we pay for collection direct to the company. There is no process for the city to deal with - which would also save the money in terms of administration and finance costs.

I would be curious to know what the city spends per dwelling on trash collection for comparison to what we are paying in a significantly smaller, more rural setting. Considering the close proximity of the houses and the volume - the rates are most likely to be cheaper here than there....

Before we entered the overly litigious world we live in now - backyard collection was a dream. But now you have no collection if there is a gate that's closed, a dog, a car in the driveway, an over sized container, too many bags, a new driveway... the list goes on and on.

There a lot of people that grew up with taking the trash to the curb. they see nothing wrong with it and - considering the current economy - do not see enough added value to the backyard trash collection to justify the cost.

Again, I would want to know the cost per dwelling for residential collection in Lakewood, including all indirect financing and administrative costs, for comparison to what we pay for contracted collection before I would decide which is the better deal.

FFT

~Charyn

Charyn

Perhaps I'm a bit off the thread here, but I'm curious..

Before we entered the overly litigious world we live in now - backyard collection was a dream. But now you have no collection if there is a gate that's closed, a dog, a car in the driveway, an over sized container, too many bags, a new driveway... the list goes on and on

SO now those damn attorneys are at fault for backyard trash collection failures? And here I thought they were only to blame for the high cost of Medical care

Jeff Endress, JD.

Charyn Varkonyi wrote:The process is simple - we pay for collection direct to the company. There is no process for the city to deal with - which would also save the money in terms of administration and finance costs.

I would be curious to know what the city spends per dwelling on trash collection for comparison to what we are paying in a significantly smaller, more rural setting. Considering the close proximity of the houses and the volume - the rates are most likely to be cheaper here than there....

~Charyn

The Administration is not interested in saving money, it is interested in maintaining current levels of employment regardless of cost or effciency.

For example:

A payroll service would do city payroll including tracking various accruals for about $25,000 per year. Whenever the City is contacted they refuse to even accept a quote.

Rita would perform all the income tax functions including collections, allocations and audits for about $500,000 per year. The officials at Rita never could understand why Lakewood insisted on paying people to do things that RITA would do as part of its contract.

Next year our finance department will be spending over one million dollars per year. In the following years they will spend even more. Any ideas on how the finance department could save money?

SO now those damn attorneys are at fault for backyard trash collection failures? And here I thought they were only to blame for the high cost of Medical care

Noo... I dont blame the attorneys. Greedy people and insurance companies perhaps... but not attorneys. (I apply the "guns dont kill people, people kill people" analogy here )

Peace,
~Charyn

Bill

The Administration is not interested in saving money, it is interested in maintaining current levels of employment regardless of cost or effciency

I don't think it's that simple. As far as the RITA goes, I understand as the raw numbers go, it looks as though RITA is a better deal, but I understand that RITA was not particularly responsive to collection issues, as well policing construction workers making witholding payments to the city. That could be a big issue especially with all the construction going on and the city is actively policing the various sites, which should generate additional tax revenues over the next few years by virtue of greater attention to temporary workers employed in the city.

As far as the refuse collection goes, I think there would be significant costs in breaking the union contract.

Jeff

Speaking only for myself, I have no use for backyard trash pickup. We recycle at least half of our weekly trash so much of it goes to the tree lawn anyway, and I pull the rest of it out from the backyard halfway up the driveway because I really don't want them traipsing around the backyard. I'd far rather the money be spend plowing the sidewalks in the winter so I could get past the end of my block without walking in the street. And so Lakewood schoolkids could get to school safely.

I'm kinda with Bill on this one. My company employs about 45 people and I can't imagine doing payroll internally. Payroll is very complex and exacting and you have to keep up with innumerable changes to what needs to be done. Plus employee status changes are so easy to enter online so the service can do the rest. And I really didn't understand the RITA decision either. It's hard for me to believe that Lakewood's city tax situation is so different from the dozens of other communities who find RITA to be cost-effective RITA. It all seems like a jobs program.

Tim Liston wrote:........ Payroll is very complex and exacting and you have to keep up with innumerable changes to what needs to be done. Plus employee status changes are so easy to enter online so the service can do the rest. And I really didn't understand the RITA decision either. It's hard for me to believe that Lakewood's city tax situation is so different from the dozens of other communities who find RITA to be cost-effective RITA. It all seems like a jobs program.

I actually called a payroll service about Lakewood. I was told that Lakewood would not even accept a quote.

A good friend and neighbor once told me that when city hall was built in the 1960's the citizens wondered what they were going to do with all that space. Little did they realize that 40 years later that building would be full and the City would actually require numerous satellite offices spread all across town.

Tim

Snow plowing the sidewalks would be a litigation nightmare, as who shovels the walks is responsible for the walks.

Charyn

Are you sure the places I am taking about do not have backyard pick-up? You seem pretty sure. Actually they are newbies that had never heard or new about backyard pick up. so the neighborhood gets their used feminine hygiene products in their yards for free. I guess that is an idea of value added instead of Tom George's idea of letting perks bring people in.

Bill

RITA had no way to track landlords and/or renters. As these forms reside in the city not the county. If rumor is correct this could be an extra million or more in the city's pockets. No matter, the city can go back to RITA anytime without any penalty.

FWIW

Charyn

Are you sure the places I am taking about do not have backyard pick-up? You seem pretty sure. Actually they are newbies that had never heard or new about backyard pick up. so the neighborhood gets their used feminine hygiene products in their yards for free. I guess that is an idea of value added instead of Tom George's idea of letting perks bring people in.

*sigh*

Jim:

I never stated that. I never thought that. Why you decided or think that I did is beyond my comprehension.

I will try to restate this more clearly:

My point was that there are a lot of places in Lakewood where you have to put your trash out front anyway. OTHER places. I didn't state that was the case in you example. I did, however, point out that the majority (not all) contracted collection services provide very secure and appropriate containers - which would address the specific situation you were illustrating.

Of course none of us wants a trash mess on the lawn - but with proper bidding and selection processes, that is no more likely than it is today. By your own example, backyard collection doesn't eliminate the problem entirely for a variety of reasons so there should be no fear in examining the possibility that we could save a lot of money for the tax payers, or free up a lot of money in the budget (however you choose to view it).

And THAT was the bigger point. To examine the cost, compare it to having the service contracted and paid for directly by the taxpayers, and then have a discussion on the merits and potential issues of contracted services once we have all of the relevant data.

I apologize for not being as competent a writer as others. I clearly am unable to convey my message and/or thoughts in a manner consistent with the level of writing typically present on this site. Then again I am a numbers person, not an English major

I truly hope that you understand that there are so many options for our city and that 99.9% of the time, I am interested in understand what all of the options are and their potential impact, benefits and costs, to the city. And I have NO fear of change and no illusion that my way, your way, Joan Robert's way, DL Mecke's way, Kevin Butler's way, or Tom George's way, is the ONLY way. We are a large, diverse community and I believe that in the end our solutions will be a hybrid mix pulled from a broad array of sources.

I wouldn't want it any other way.

But that's just me.

Peace and again my apologies,
~Charyn

Having tossed this topic out, I need to clarify, too.

Where garbage is picked up doesn't affect me (and the folks I had talked to weren't other high-rise dwellers since it doens't affect them, either).

It may very well be that, if put out there for general discussion, backyard pickup IS a big deal and something residents would be willing to sustian a tax increase to continue. Or maybe they'd give up something else to keep it. Either way is A-OK with me.

But after hearing that backyard pickup is one of the things that Lakewood was so vehement about maintaining, I was taken aback to hear people say, "for $200 a year, I'll schlep my own stuff out front."

It was clear that Lakewood DID feel strongly about no school buses, and they proved they were wiling to pay a premium to maintain that. The schools knew, because the schools asked. and clearly laid out the options. All I'm suggesting is that the city could do with a little asking.

Regarding sidewalk shovelling, why can't the city enforce current ordinances on shovelling? Then again, there is a problem with enforcement of grass mowing, of building codes, etc. I am not an attorney, but there seems to be a problem. A city as urban as Lakewood with so much snow and ice on the sidewalks in the winter is a disgrace. I am a relatively healthy adult, so I can fend for myself okay, but I feel bad for senior citizens and others who have an increasingly hard time trying to walk even one block in the winter due to the conditions of the sidewalks. I realize most people on this board probably drive everywhere, even if it is a block away, though.

Doug

I for one would gladly give up backyard pick-up for an additional $200 savings per year, if I could be guaranteed the savings would be realized and not just spent elsewhere unless it was moved to another service, say expanded recycling.

As for the comments about the move to RITA. In my opinion this was a bad decision. The only reason the City has given is that it allows it to be more aggressive in collections of landlords and contractors. Since most rentals loose money on a tax basis, I don’t see this as a great help. And as for contractors, another example of Lakewood doing its best to punish small business for operating in the City. If a plumber works in Lakewood and 15 other communities his tax return preparation bill can approach $2,000 just because of the extra work involved with filing Municipal returns. It does no good going after small businesses. And as for sidewalk shoveling, how can cities like Cleveland Heights and University Heights get away with it when Lakewood is afraid of the liability ?? After all, we pride ourselves on being a town with neighborhoods and retail within walking distance.

Where and how was the $200 saving for hauling trash to the street determined?

Kenneth Warren