The Observation Deck

The United Church of Christ on the "Y" of Alger and Warren is moving out of our city and merging with another church in Westlake, according to the pastor, due to lack of interest, therefore lack of money to keep that one running.

My question for the sake of discussion is: Is religeon in general, fading from a place in our lives? Are churches fading away? What is the future of organized religeon or is there one at all?


So, for the sake of discussion, what do YOU think aobut the future of churches and organized religeon.

As one of the "mainline" Protestant denominations, the UCC has been experiencing an aging and decline in membership for decades. Episcopals, Methodists, Lutherans, and Presbyterians are in the same boat.

It's happening everywhere, but as a community in transition, Lakewood tends to feel changes early and more dramatically.
On the other hand, non-denominational "mega-churches" are booming everywhere. It's not a trend I'm personally inspired by, but it's there.

"Organized religion" is still very, very much a part of life in America. In poll after poll, we outrank all other western nations in percentage of people who believe in God. It's just the organizations that are changing.

Religion done? Far from it!
If anything, at the national level religion has become the center of our political and cultural scene.

Joan is correct....as with any business (and yes, religion is very much like business) there are always going to be shifts in taste and market leaders.
We have a very wide and diverse mix of churches here in town, and they have definitely had a profound and positive impact on our community's history and culture.

I am hoping that the Observer will be able to print some stories this year about some of our local churches. I may even try to do a story or two when the sports season ends.

Joan

You might want to ask Ken his thoughts on this. we have been tracking it for some time, and it is very troubling.

Last year we were at St. Peter and Paul. The pastor told us that they were down to 75 members. I asked what the neighborhood thought. He mentioned he was not sure that he now lived in Strongsville. I wondered how we left how a neighborhood church would grow, if the members and the pastor lived out of town?

We then pondered the impact of Lakewoodites moving to large Mega churches. After all they drive way out to the burbs, then drive way back to the city. I am sure there is some per pressure to move out of Lakewood, and come to the promised land.

Also noticed that many of the churches with dwindling participation have been giving to female ministers, that seem to have trouble saving the church. As religion especially Christianity seem eager to keep women in their place and out of power, is this an op, or just strange occurrence?

Just another thing working against us?

At what point do churches stop serving the poor and go for the $$$$.

Do these mega churches help smaller city churches?

Just me always wondering why?


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No, I don't think you can view this from a urban vs. suburban perspective.

The mainline churches have dropped the ball in terms of communicating a clear and inspirational message. Where the mega churches have focused on "the show", fundamentalist churches have offered a clear view of "right" and "wrong" and Catholic parishes have fostered a sense of social justice, the mainline denominations, whether in Lakewood or Strongsville, have become the "frozen chosen."

Try this: Take two months and go to eight different mainline Protestant Lakewood churches. Count the number of times someone shakes your hand and says, "welcome, please come back." In fact, you can drop the "Lakewood" part. It's much the same everywhere.

A church service at a mega church feels like a rock concert. By contrast, the 10:30 a.m. service at your local (your denomination here) seems like a funeral. Try to see it from the eyes of the XBox Generation. Is one more legitimate than the other? Who can say?

Mainline churches in Bay or Avon, with relatively wealthy congregants, have fared a little better, but their day of reckoning is coming as well.

Church hierarchies differ with denominations, but most mainline churches actually encourage and support female clergy, so I don''t think that's it, either.

As for helping the poor, who helps more? A mega church that gives 5% of its $1,000,000 budget, or a struggling one that gives 20 percent of $100,000? See? No easy answer.

It's a far, far, far bigger issue than Lakewood, and it's had political implications as well as social and spiritual ones.

Maybe I'm displaying a Catholic bias, but I suspect that there aren't a lot of Lakewoodites traveling to outer ring suburbs for religion. Unless I misunderstand the term, "Megachurches" tend to be evengelical conservative outfits, and frankly I don't think Lakewood is fertile ground for that brand of faith.

Instead of fleeing outward for church, I think there is a reverse trend. I know a lot locals that still attend Church in Cleveland, "back in the old neighborhood". St. Colman (Catholic), for example, has a quite a few Lakewoodites despite the fact that we have five Catholic parishes within our borders. The trend is not limited here...for example, one friend of mine that grew up in Westpark and now lives in Westlake attends mass downtown at the Cathedral each week.


I don't know the deal with "MegaChurches", but in the Catholic Diocese parishes are teamed up within the "Church in the City" project, which was a very nice initiative by Pilla. For example, St. Colman, a poor parish located on West 65th street, is teamed up with ST. Christopher's in Rocky River. Many St. Chris parishoners volunteer and donate to help St. Colman and its surrounding neighborhood. Among other projects, school supplies are provided to neighborhood kids, an abandoned home was refurbished and given to a needy family, and hundreds of families are helped with financial emergencies of all types.

Mike I think you're right. The Catholic Church is its own entity and is totally separate from the situation facing the mainline Protestant churches/

Pilgrim UCC in Tremont is another church that, through the will of its (female) pastor, a committment to social causes, and a little good old fashioned marketing, has more than bucked the trend.
But whether it's the exception that proves the rule, who can say?

Joan Roberts wrote:Mike I think you're right. The Catholic Church is its own entity and is totally separate from the situation facing the mainline Protestant churches/

Pilgrim UCC in Tremont is another church that, through the will of its (female) pastor, a committment to social causes, and a little good old fashioned marketing, has more than bucked the trend.
But whether it's the exception that proves the rule, who can say?

Joan/Mike

That is good news then. I know of more than a couple that have joined churches in Bay and Strongsville, and was worried this would be another part of the leakage.

As far as Pilgrim I have had the pleasure of meeting many members from the church including the pastor and have heard nothing but great things about the church and the renaissance it is going through.

But 5 churches closing that come to mind in less than 3 years would seem a disturbing trend.


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Don't be too disturbed. It just reflects some basic changes in the church's role in people's lives.
Churches used to be determined by family. You went where your parents went. Now, the church your parents went to might be miles and miles away. Your PARENTS don't even go to your parents' church anymore. In fact, the phenomenon Mike described might be in part due to people searching for "roots" their own parents abandoned. Like the third-generation Italian learning the language his own parents shunned. People march to their own drummer.

And then, people expect different things from churches today. They want singles groups, young adult groups, young parents groups, empty nester groups, left-handed groups. One church even has a "golf ministry", which sounds oxymoronic to me, but "judge not, lest ye be judged."

Churches of 75-100 members can't provide that, yet they don't want to give up their autonomy (boy, does THIS sound familiar). It's just not a local phenomenon.

Don't panic, Jim. As with other businesses (there's that word again), there are gains, too.

For example, I was in Birdtown the other day and noticed what I think is a new Baptist Church on Quail Road. It is in a building previously occupied by another denomination.

I really love looking at those old church buildings in Birdtown...I'm sure there are a billion stories within those walls.

Did Halle's close because people didn't need to shop any more?

It takes a long time and some dedicated (and charismatic) people to reverse a trend.

In 1990, Pilgrim (UCC) had fewer than 30 members. In 2006 the average attendance is around 250. The membership is over 500. It is a place where you will be greeted. The pastors and a majority of the congregation do not live within walking distance.

It is also a community space where many activities occur. It's a "home" to the Tremont Art Walk, to dance and theater companies, to neighborhood groups, to after school programs, etc. That's smart use of a nice building. It's good marketing. Their April newsletter had a legal sized calendar of events that used 9pt type with 4pts of white space between events. And not all of the events fit on one page.

Charismatic pastors in all denomintions have been able to attract a congregation. Joan's point is on the mark as usual. We live in Rex Humbard's/Ernest Angely's back yard. Did they attract a following?

We talk to people who have investigated a list of possible churches on the internet. They make a list, visit churches and pick one. This is a little new.

Someone, be it pastors or congregants has to help "sell" a church. Some people have a talent for that sort of thing and some don't.

Time is short so I will be brief.

In terms of whether it matters or not if the pastor lives in Lakewood - in the eyes of the church is does not and should not. Each pastor is called to serve the children of God whoever and wherever they may be. By virtue of their position within the church body, they tend to know more about what is happening within a community than most regardless of whether they live in that community or not and if they are a competent pastor they will not need to live in the area to have empathy for the members that are living there.

Many if not most churches tend to rotate pastors so that each church body can receive the benefit of a pastors unique skills. If there is a particularly good fit the pastor stays - often coming from another state to do so.

As far as the mega churches are concerned, it is important to be careful about what you are referring to as a a mega church. There are fundamentalist, evangelical, fundie evangelicals, etc. I believe what you are really speaking of are the charismatic churches - which may exhibit some, many, or all of the stereotypical conservative fundie leanings.

They are geared towards people who are seeking a richer church experience, and they are reaching that target well. Enough such that a number of churches felt pressed by the charismatic/megachurch decisions to not hold services on Christmas last year.

That's some sway.

There is a lot to say on this topic - as I said my time is short. But the bottom line is that religion/God/Chistianity is not disappearing - as was deftly pointed out - it is only changing.

Peace,
~Charyn

Mike Deneen wrote:Don't panic, Jim. As with other businesses (there's that word again), there are gains, too.

For example, I was in Birdtown the other day and noticed what I think is a new Baptist Church on Quail Road. It is in a building previously occupied by another denomination.

I really love looking at those old church buildings in Birdtown...I'm sure there are a billion stories within those walls.

I know of two other people that wanted to buy the Church of Yahweh. One was willing to give up a house on the lake for a chance to own it as a house, and the other was a holistic group that wanted it for a store. The building department knocked down the business idea, for reasons that are explained elsewhere.

That still leaves Grace, and the United Church of Christ and one other for sale. While I am not worried from a religious point, none are my religion. It is a trend I would hope slows or stops. The paper has been asked for help by three other churches whose congregations are getting low.

Charyn

While I understand that a "minister" does not need to live in a city. I do think it helps when they do. The pastor for St. Peter's is not only right behind the church but extremely active in the community. Like i said i think it helps.

But thanks to all for ending my fears.

Mike

Birdtown has become pretty vibrant at night. Walk it some weekend night it is nice. Bela, Mahalls, Mama Mias, it is all nice.



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The UCC Church on Warren Rd. isn't the only UCC church in Lakewood, either. There are still a TON of churches in Lakewood and as noted they have to adapt as their congregations change (or their needs change).

By "charismatic church" I assume we are talking about Church on the Rise, a seriously huge project in Westlake. I had some words (in a letter, not on the street!) with their pastor a few years ago when there was a same-sex benefits package proposed for city workers. The Church on the Rise made a point to send a letter saying they thought this was evil and sinful and an all around bad idea for the city...a city they were not located in. This was my beef (well, one beef...I had a beef with the semi with the bloody Christ as well), namely that they weren't a Lakewood city church so what business is it of theirs? The response was that Church on the Rise was home to a lot of Lakewood residents who, I suppose, made a point to their pastor to oppose this move by the City of Lakewood. That's some sway!

As a Unitarian-Universalist, we have had the same flux in growth that other Protestant churches go through. I now attend Westshore UU in River and we have done well, well enough to do a huge renovation to the church facilities. UU has had fairly constant but small growth across the board. We also have a urban-based church that the more suburban churches support (to a certain degree). It is located on Lorain Rd. in Detroit-Shoreway area. A lot of our growth comes from people who have lost the love for their original faiths...meaning, we are more made up of converts than of second generation folks (which is actually a problem...we don't retain the next generation very well).

It is an interesting topic, though. But overall, I agree that religion continues to be a gigantic part of the American experience, for good and ill.

Yours in _______________ <--- (Insert deity of choice here...see, Unitarian!)


Phil

I was raised going to St. Hedwig, in Birdtown, and yes there is a 1000 stories there at least. My best bud back when we were kids went to St. Gregs, and another bud went to St.Cyril..and yet another Grace Luthern..so back in those days..it was great fun with all the social events, bake sales, carnivals, etc etc.

I just read on the net that churches as a whole are not doing very well, but I think our area, NE Ohio, might be doing better than average.

My wife raised Episcopal, says they have lost the most, due to an aging population, and the biggest problem was they elected a gay Pope, which lost quite a few of the hard-core members.

With all the scandals in the Catholic church, it's still doing well. I think each person's personal relationship with religeon drives them either to or from organized religeons.

I'm glad to see as many churches in Lakewood as we DO have. I hope someone will soon move into the building on Alger and Warren soon. It's a great facility.