The Observation Deck

People have already died at the hands of bad actors in league with you - Brian Essi

supporting BL = killing people

They aren't doing this out of the good of their hearts. They do not care one bit about the average Lakewoodite, any more than they care about the elderly who will find it more difficult to receive care. - Bridget Conant

supporting BL = not caring for the elderly nor the average lakewoodite

Todd seems like a very angry man. - Amy Martin

supporting BL = being angry

At least I am not involved in what appears to be money laundering, etc. like your buddy Mike Summers is - Lori Allen

supporting BL = sleeping with Mayor Summers

Have at it Todd! You appear to be doing nothing but mouthing off about things that you yourself cannot prove. What are you doing to help our city? - Lori Allen

supporting BL = mouthing off

Todd, I'm glad you don't want to take a stand against others - Cameron Karslake

supporting BL = spinelessness

No more brain cells will be wasted on you - Leo Wetula

supporting BL = causation of wasted brain cells

It appears as though Todd is the once who needs some perspective . . . .and don't try to bullshit us into thinking you haven't made your mind up on this issue either - Amy Martin

supporting BL = no perspective

Are the build members that scared that they appear to be vandalizing signs? I hope that if anyone at city hall has been instructed to do this that they are not doing it on the taxpayer's dime! - Lori Allen

supporting BL = being a vandal

When you see a Build Lakewood sign, read "Lakewood is too stupid to understand this, they cannot be trusted to vote on it and besides I don't like the way they vote." - Jim Obryan

supporting BL = looking down on the people

I'm sure the lies don't bother him since he has apparently proven that he has no morals - Lori Allen

supporting BL = no morals

I'm sure they've spun it for you, though, and you've lapped it up. - Bridget Conant

supporting BL = being a lapdog

No, they dislike poor white people too, pick a color, if it can't afford "the club" or "the club" screw them. - Jim Obryan

supporting BL = being racist and a wager of class warfare

Those people are SO emotional! - Bridget Conant

supporting BL = being one of "those" people

He's pointing out the fact that the city has been lying to us. Is that OK with you? Yes, I think so. - Michael Deneen

supporting BL = being ok with lies

None of what you said is rational. Here's the truth - none of your points are true. - Bridget Conant

supporting BL = being unrational

Then you carry on like a petulant brat - Jim Obryan

supporting BL = being petulant

Yes, North Coast Health is in on the grab. They are prostituting themselves like crack whores. - Amy Martin

supporting BL = crack whore

Thugs - Jim Obryan

supporting BL = you are a thug

For example, I accept the belief that Todd Heckeler was "disadvantaged," "weaker" and "powerless" in relation to me - Brian Essi

supporting BL = being weak, disadvantaged, and powerless

Jay Foran is the queen of Fear Mongers... pure spookiness, by the Drama Queen himself, Jay Foran - Jim Obryan

supporting BL = being a "queen" (bonus points for including a gay/transgendered slur in that post)

Yes, Todd, you are quite curious and confused! - Bridget Conant

supporting BL = confusion

Don't bother with Todd, Ryan. He's being disingenuous. He's a Build Lakewood lackey and he needs to be called on it. - Bridget Conant

supporting BL = being a lackey

i grew up on belle. spent nearly 20 years on that street. damn near the hospital. there were six kids in the house that i grew up in and needless to say i spent tons of time there. hell, had one of my babies there. so when news broke about the closure, i was saddened and jumped right on the SLH bandwagon. emotion gave way to curiosity and i started looking at the issue from different angles. but i started, as with all things lakewood, looking here first.

i was dismayed that the deck became the outpost for hospital talk. there is so much info on the topic to digest but none of it is organized. ooodles of posts every day about essentially the same thing. can get confusing. i miss posts on other subjects. so rare here anymore. the hospital issue is important, i get that. however, lakewood is more than one issue.

and then there's the posts themselves. so mean and bitter. lots of accusations without names attached. a huge lack of tolerance towards anyone who might deviate from the groupthink. LOTS OF CAPS! i started off as a SLH supporter and after some of the comments here i decided to look over at some BL social media to so see just who in the hell these "poor people" killers were. guess what happened?

that's right. i switched sides. i didn't see the anger and fear mongering that i saw here. i saw reason and it made sense.

you guys are shooting yourself in the foot. i send people who are on the fence regarding this issue over here and only here. and guess what?

that's right. you guys changed a few minds and not in your favor.

so keep up the good work, observers, you are making my job easier.

Odd discussion for adults to have about adults, eh? - Jim Obryan

When I looked at this issue, I did as much research as I could. I talked to as many people as I could and attempted to get the back story straight in my head (which is not easy!). And guess what? What people post, one way or the other, made no difference to me, except in a research capacity. I made up my own mind based on what I read and heard. Maybe you should take a step back, examine the evidence again and really ask yourself if the organizations who brought this onto our fair city should be rewarded. Filter out the emotion Kate and you'll see this "deal" for what it is, a terrible one.

BTW, the quote of mine about Todd "not wanting to take a stand against people" had nothing to do with being spineless, nor was I calling him that. Can you believe I was actually being sincere?
Did you read these threads for context? I have done my best to be courteous to fellow posters and focus my ire onto public officials only.

Getting back to the thread title, your place or mine?

kate e parker wrote:

When you see a Build Lakewood sign, read "Lakewood is too stupid to understand this, they cannot be trusted to vote on it and besides I don't like the way they vote." - Jim Obryan

supporting BL = looking down on the people

Then you carry on like a petulant brat - Jim Obryan

supporting BL = being petulant

Thugs - Jim Obryan

supporting BL = you are a thug

Jay Foran is the queen of Fear Mongers... pure spookiness, by the Drama Queen himself, Jay Foran - Jim Obryan

supporting BL = being a "queen" (bonus points for including a gay/transgendered slur in that post)

Odd discussion for adults to have about adults, eh? - Jim Obryan

Kate

I can only answer for myself, and I think most were taken out of context, which often happens.

When you see a Build Lakewood sign, read "Lakewood is too stupid to understand this, they cannot be trusted to vote on it and besides I don't like the way they vote." - Jim Obryan

supporting BL = looking down on the people

This was a quote from a LHA member and BuildLakewood supporter. It is what she said, as to why we should let them carry on. Kate, what is I said to you, "You don;t know what you are talking about, and I hate the way you vote, Let me decide this for you." about any topic you chose. You would track be done and kick my ass. You know you would, you have in the past.

Then you carry on like a petulant brat - Jim Obryan

supporting BL = being petulant

Perhaps I could have a link?

Jay Foran is the queen of Fear Mongers... pure spookiness, by the Drama Queen himself, Jay Foran - Jim Obryan

supporting BL = being a "queen" (bonus points for including a gay/transgendered slur in that post)

I have never heard of a Drama King, ever, ever. Not a slur of any kind except Jay's ability to phrase things as, "We have to..." "There is no other choice..." "Lakewood ends if..." Jay uses these often, do a search for Jay and read his posts. The fact is it has never been that black and white. Everyone uses hyperbole, but it was WestEnd, Grant School, Pocket Park Downtown...

I realized I still need to address the "club" In this city which is sick with clubbiness, it is not bced and race or the color of your skin, it is based on peer pressure. I do not see Lakewoodites as racists, or even elitist.

Kate we almost never agree on anything anyway, but I want you to understand my hyperbole has some basis in fact, not hatred.

At the end of the day, I know you will vote and act in a way that is right for you.

No one can ask more from a person.

.

Plenty more on Facebook and nextdoor as well, though some are from Tim to the SLH people as well so... but you forgot the video at the end of the post. I just wonder how many people are going to come back to the LO when this is over? Probably not many.

Ms. Parker do you think Johnny Manziel is going to start on Sunday ? I ask because I think that's about as pertinent to the facts surrounding Lakewood Hospital as that very dramatic presentation you just offered up. So thanks but I think I'll skip your party. I'll leave it to others to dig up Mr.Kenny telling us that he blames the residents of Lakewood for the plight of the Hospital or Ms. Patton questioning the right of residents to vote on the referendum because in essence we're too stupid. I would offer up that it would be interesting to check how many times Build Lakewood has worked into this discussion the " emotional, acrimonious, hostile and intimidating opposition" talking points which I know suspect has become a full fledged campaign. Instead I'll take this opportunity to ask the overworked Brian Essi if it would be possible for him to put together a sort of greatest hits package of what went down and when ,(with CCF,LHA and Mayor Summers), in the form of an article in The Observer. Preferably as close to the election as possible. I think that would be a real service to the city.

M Buckley,

Always good to hear your succinct an gentlemanly writings.

The "SUMMERSGATE" story is in process.

The spotlight that BLers Carson, Pae and Madigan have put on me and the Deck has brought a plethora of "Deep-throats" my way.

I am a bit overwhelmed with the new information right now and trying to verify it so it will likely be closer to the election.

kate e parker wrote:

People have already died at the hands of bad actors in league with you - Brian Essi

supporting BL = killing people

Bridget Conant wrote:https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2014/07/116461/higher-chance-hospital-death-found-areas-where-emergency-departments-have-closed

In the first analysis of its kind, UC San Francisco research shows that emergency department closures can have a ripple effect on patient outcomes at nearby hospitals.

In a study of more than 16 million emergency admissions to California hospitals between 1999 and 2010, researchers found that patients who were admitted to facilities located in the vicinity of an emergency department (ED) that had recently closed experienced 5 percent higher odds of dying than patients admitted to hospitals that were not near a recently closed ED.
The odds of dying were even higher for patients with certain time-sensitive conditions, especially heart attack (15 percent higher odds), stroke (10 percent) and sepsis (8 percent). The findings are of particular concern nationwide, said the authors, because the annual number of ED visits increased by 51 percent between 1996 and 2009, while the number of available emergency departments dropped by 6 percent.

It's very clear that an ER that isn't capable of performing emergency life saving procedures, and the health center will be in that group, will result in increased mortality.

It is inevitable. Seconds matter in an emergency, as the Cleveland Clinic has stated

“Our findings indicate that disproportionate numbers of ED closures may be driving up inpatient mortality in communities and hospitals with more minority, Medicaid and low-income patients, and contributing to existing disparities in health outcomes,” said Hsia. “These results suggest that health systems and policy makers should consider the ripple effect on communities when they regulate ED closures.”

"The odds of dying were even higher for patients with certain time-sensitive conditions, especially heart attack (15 percent higher odds), stroke (10 percent) and sepsis (8 percent). The findings are of particular concern nationwide, said the authors, because the annual number of ED visits increased by 51 percent between 1996 and 2009, while the number of available emergency departments dropped by 6 percent."

So Kate,

You wrote: supporting BL = killing people Not me.

Who is a better source of information for life and death information: The Centers for Disease Control? Or Summers, Gable LHA, Bullock Madigan?

Please do send all those folks over here for deadly serious conversation.

cameron karslake wrote:When I looked at this issue, I did as much research as I could. I talked to as many people as I could and attempted to get the back story straight in my head (which is not easy!). And guess what? What people post, one way or the other, made no difference to me, except in a research capacity. I made up my own mind based on what I read and heard. Maybe you should take a step back, examine the evidence again and really ask yourself if the organizations who brought this onto our fair city should be rewarded. Filter out the emotion Kate and you'll see this "deal" for what it is, a terrible one.

BTW, the quote of mine about Todd "not wanting to take a stand against people" had nothing to do with being spineless, nor was I calling him that. Can you believe I was actually being sincere?
Did you read these threads for context? I have done my best to be courteous to fellow posters and focus my ire onto public officials only.

the tone here didn't change my mind, the future did.

I split the baby with this one. while I believe the administration behaved like a pack of jackasses in regards to the hospital I also believe that this bell is damned near impossible to unring. so what now? vote the bums out and make the best out of the mess. where we disagree is just how to proceed.

the deck has informed me well over the last ten years and I guess I am just disappointed in how people are treated at times.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:You would track be done and kick my ass. You know you would, you have in the past.

you know I love this place, obryan. you also know i'm a shit stirrer. that's what I do. jeez I miss the craziness of the global forum back in the early days of the deck, haha

kate e parker wrote:I split the baby with this one. while I believe the administration behaved like a pack of jackasses in regards to the hospital I also believe that this bell is damned near impossible to unring. so what now? vote the bums out and make the best out of the mess. where we disagree is just how to proceed.

Kate

All of the problems we are going through with this Hospital Deal comes back to bad management. Bad management of the hospital, Mike, Mary Louise and Tom was on the Association Board. Bad planning, now that we know Mike has been dreaming of this for nearly 5 years, where is his dream plan? A room at the bustling University of Akron for random neighbors to "Dream Big?" Then when the story braks, The Manager. and his Assistant, decide to lie, and trash the messenger instead of doing their legal duty. Then management hires Crisis management and spin for $1 million, and the deal is then misrepresented, mismanaged, and convoluted so bad, we are the laughing stock of the county again thanks to our feckless leaders, that deliver their city to yet another Civil War.

This entire nightmare is BAD MANAGEMENT. Even the Mayor says he would do things differently. WTF?!

How we proceed, new manager, and rest the conversation. This ain't Iraq, yet. (for you dear)

kate e parker wrote:

Jim O'Bryan wrote:You would track be done and kick my ass. You know you would, you have in the past.

you know I love this place, obryan. you also know i'm a shit stirrer. that's what I do. jeez I miss the craziness of the global forum back in the early days of the deck, haha

Kate

You know, I'll always have a hug for you and a place for you to tell me why I am wrong.

Global will pick up with the Presidential Election, everyone will find something to be outraged about.

.

Kate E Parker writes: "the tone here didn't change my mind, the future did.

I split the baby with this one. while I believe the administration behaved like a pack of jackasses in regards to the hospital I also believe that this bell is damned near impossible to unring. so what now? vote the bums out and make the best out of the mess. where we disagree is just how to proceed.

the deck has informed me well over the last ten years and I guess I am just disappointed in how people are treated at times"

I think you will find that quite a few people on the BL side of this issue are exactly where Kate is. I am.

To put another way, I don't care how we arrived at this point in the situation. If the Mayor is guilty of half the things that you(SLH) say he is then we need to vote accordingly. How we move forward is the difference. You're (SLH) asking residents to take a leap of faith that Metro will renew their proposal and operate a hospital. That building, with the exception of the existing ER, is so outdated that it would need to be leveled and rebuilt if someone other than the clinic operates a hospital on that site.

No one is waiting for Metro, as you allege. There are MANY opportunities out there, but SURPRISE, they were NOT explored.

The Huron Report, which the city commissioned, made a point of that fact - that the city did not attempt to market the property.

How can we say "no one will come in" when we NEVER asked anyone (other than Metro, which DID have interest.)

It's unconscionable that we assume our only hope it to throw all out eggs in one basket and take the substandard offer from the Clinic. Until we have properly marketed the facility, telling me our only hope is CC is just a fat lie.

Patrick Wadden wrote:I think you will find that quite a few people on the BL side of this issue are exactly where Kate is. I am.

To put another way, I don't care how we arrived at this point in the situation. If the Mayor is guilty of half the things that you(SLH) say he is then we need to vote accordingly. How we move forward is the difference. You're (SLH) asking residents to take a leap of faith that Metro will renew their proposal and operate a hospital. That building, with the exception of the existing ER, is so outdated that it would need to be leveled and rebuilt if someone other than the clinic operates a hospital on that site.

Patrick


You are way too smart to vote for things because of what out laying people say.

I am not a SLH person, and I am not a BL person, I do not put much faith in anything.

BUT LHA that holds the contract with the Clinic, and was charged with managing this property gas a $500 million dollar insurance policy.

I am think, 25% of that is far better than $34 million, that we already own.

You are right and I am glad you, one of the few BL folks to admit this is all because of bad management.

Vote, like your city depends on it.

.

Patrick Wadden wrote:Kate E Parker writes: "the tone here didn't change my mind, the future did.

I split the baby with this one. while I believe the administration behaved like a pack of jackasses in regards to the hospital I also believe that this bell is damned near impossible to unring. so what now? vote the bums out and make the best out of the mess. where we disagree is just how to proceed.

the deck has informed me well over the last ten years and I guess I am just disappointed in how people are treated at times"

I think you will find that quite a few people on the BL side of this issue are exactly where Kate is. I am.

To put another way, I don't care how we arrived at this point in the situation. If the Mayor is guilty of half the things that you(SLH) say he is then we need to vote accordingly. How we move forward is the difference. You're (SLH) asking residents to take a leap of faith that Metro will renew their proposal and operate a hospital. That building, with the exception of the existing ER, is so outdated that it would need to be leveled and rebuilt if someone other than the clinic operates a hospital on that site.

Patrick

I am confused.

So if the tone does not change things, why all the bellyaching and trumped up frivolous criminal complaints based upon the tone being allegedly "threatening"?

How is believing Summers and Siley can fill an empty lot any less of of "leap of faith" than something that is already built and has succeeded for 100 years?

Could it be that the Summers BL CCF PR folks staged the Pae Madigab Johnny Carson Show to grasp a headline and attempt to use the City government violate my First Amendment Rights?


I am told that you are one of my harshest critics in the other sand boxes. Now that I see your analysis and basic misunderstandings in print, I understand the problem.

Can we have coffee or lunch?

You could bring your bodyguards.

If that is too threatening, how about just a chat on the phone?

Be Happy Dude, the building is not the way you claim.

216 346 3434