The Observation Deck

The 2014 spring elections are about to get interesting.
The May ballot will likely contain a proposed extension to the County Sin Tax for pro sports facilities. Currently set to expire in 2015, the tax would be extended to 2035.

The cost is on cigarettes is 4.5 cents a pack, 16 cents per gallon of beer, 32 cents per gallon of wine and mix beverages, 24 cents per gallon of cider and $3 per gallon of hard liquor.

Naturally, it is unclear how the money would be divided between the three facilities, and it is unclear what specifically it would be spent on (although scoreboards seem a popular theme).
Prior experience tells us that the teams will remain vague on details throughout the campaign.

Survey:
1. Would you vote for the extension?
2. Would your vote be different if the teams had greater on-field success?

No and No and No again.

If the Browns, Indians and Cavaliers are such economic engines then they should be able to pay their own expenses. If they can't pay their own electric bills are they really an economic engine?

If they need government help to pay the bills then the help should come in the form of the revenue generated by a tax on ticket sales. Let the customers pay the freight.

20 years ago this region embarked on an orgy of taxpayer financing for any number of non profits and sport teams. Since then the City has lost 50% of its population and lost all of its Fortune 500 companies. We now lead the nation in job losses and in poverty. Every single forecasting model I've seen predicts further population loss. They all predict increasing decline at an increasing rate.

At what point can we say the policy has failed? At what point do we consider that the policy has caused actual damage?

Of course none of this means anything unless some elected official stands in front of the cameras and cries out STOP!

One of our customers is a big employer here in the Cleveland area. They are asking that we cut our prices even though our prices haven't been raised in over 5 years. The plant manager told us that his headquarters is looking to reduce costs by 3%. Apparently that 3% price difference is costing them customers and market share. The facilities here in Cleveland that employ over 2,000 people are at risk and no one cares.

Cuyahoga County is a very expensive place to do business. When companies close or move because of an extra 3% in costs every penny of costs added by the Great Cuyahoga County Subsidy Machine drives another company out of town.

The whole policy is insane.

OMG Bill and I agree! NO NO NO

Diane Rehm had a guest on yesterday who spoke about the NFL. They pay almost NO taxes, are secretive about their finances, and basically extort money from taxpayers for things they should be paying for.

Has anyone EVER proved that they are a true economic asset? That is, AFTER considering how much money the taxpayer pumps into the facilities?

I'm voting NO!

NO and NO.

I will vote yes merely because I don't drink or smoke so there is no money coming out of my wallet

I drink responsibly, not by the gallon

Like it or not, many people value the cachet of being a major league city, and will support taxes to keep it that way. Have you forgotten what we went through when that weasel took "our" NFL team to Baltimore?

The few viable businesses that remain in the area find the sports and entertainment activities useful recruiting tools.

I'm not convinced that taxes have ruined our local economy, since there are taxes everywhere. I think it is more likely that we no longer have a diligent and educated workforce, and our workers demand high wages while workers elsewhere will work for far less.

A couple of duplicate threads have been launched since I first mentioned the sin tax back in January.

As this vote draws closer, I expect interest in this topic to pick up.

In the interest of consolidation, I thought I'd bump the original thread in order to provide a common location for discussion.

How many of you people who are against it think that if the sin tax extension doesn't pass the price of cigarettes, beer, wine and hard liquor will drop? Voting against it will accomplish nothing. You will still pay what you pay now and if it doesn't pass then the city and county will have to come up with the money for stadium and arena updates somewhere else since the contract with the teams requires them to pay.

I'm voting no. I don't expect any prices to come down. I'm voting no on principle. The taxpayers should not be subsidising billionaire owners. If the sin tax renewal fails, the city should assess a facility/ticket fee so that the folks actually using these places are the ones that pay. I'd much rather those pennies go to the establishments than the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc.

"People don't believe this when I tell them this, but NFL headquarters, 345 Park Avenue in New York City, a gleaming structure, you think you're in the Goldman Sachs building, is organized as a not-for-profit entity and pays no taxes. That's just headquarters. The individual teams, we think they pay corporate income taxes, but we don't know because they don't disclose anything."

http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2013- ... ing-sports

"Almost all NFL stadia make payments in lieu of taxes on property taxes. The Super Bowl this year will be played in New Jersey at the gleaming and beautiful new stadium where the Giants and Jets play. If that stadium was taxed at the same rate as homeowners in the same county, the annual tax would be about $20 million a year. The Jets and Giants negotiated a payment with the local county authority, so they only pay $6 million a year. So they are paying something, but they're paying about a third of what they should."

What could happen if the renewal fails:

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/ ... 301269991#

The new sin tax is a renewal of the old sin tax....the amount stays the same. The same amount that built Progressive Field, the Q and First Energy Field. It's hard to believe they need the same amount to maintain these venues as it did to build them in the first place.

In a TV add, the backers of the sin tax claim that pro sports in downtown Cleveland generated 400 million in various tax revenues. It seems to me that those cities that benefit from the additional tax revenue (basically the City of Cleveland) should pay for the ongoing maintenance.

BTW, maintenance should not mean replacing club lounge carpeting that gets used 10 times a year and looks brand new.

We don't need bigger score boards, we can see them fine. It's just another way for the teams to sell more advertising and get more revenue at taxpayer expense.

I'm so tired of being bullied or guilted into paying more taxes. The sky won't fall....vote NO

If the sun tax fails in can be repaced with a ticket tax.

$13 million is jum9 change for the county that found $50 million for the ameritrust building, $350 million for a new couny admin building etc,

That's all BS that the teams will leave if we don't hand their billionaire owners more taxpayer monies.

I'm voting NO! I'll bet they find the money for their updates if they really want them that bad.