The Observation Deck

so there we were, sitting in our back yard, doing the stereotypical summer weekend activity of cooking smores over a small fire in our covered metal fire pit, when we were visited by an officer of the law.

Apparently, such pits are not legal in Lakewood and a neighbor had complained.

I guess I should have better familiarized myself with the law, but my real astonishment came from the discovery that apparently one of my neighbors feels more comfortable calling the police than just yelling over the fence to correct my inapropriate activities.

One of the reasons I moved to Lakewood was due to the close proximity of homes, as I prefer to live in a front porch, close knit community. Are we losing that aspect of our society where a little common courtesy is called for be for the police are brought in?

My secondary question is... what exactly is the rule for backyard fire pits. is there anything that IS allowed? is it time to open a discussion on changing some legislation?

1503.03 RESTRICTIONS; NOTICE AND PERMISSION.
(a) No person shall cause or allow outdoor burning in the Municipality, except as provided in subsections (b) through (g) hereof.


(b) When permitted by the property owner, outdoor burning shall be allowed for the following purposes without notification to or permission from the Ohio Environmental Protection Agency or the Chief of Fire or his or her designee:


(1) The cooking of food for human consumption utilizing appliances designed for cooking with charcoal, wood, stove fuel or cooking gas. The following conditions shall be met when cooking utilizing open burning or an open flame:


A. Charcoal burners utilizing charcoal briquettes, including wood chips, shall not be operated on balconies, porches, and decks or within ten feet of any combustible material or structure or within fifteen feet of the public right of way.


B. Liquid petroleum, gas-fueled cooking devices shall not be operated on balconies, porches or decks, or within ten feet of any combustible material or structure or within fifteen feet of the public right of way.


C. Fire in appliances designed for cooking utilizing seasoned dry firewood shall be permitted provided that such devices shall not be located on balconies, porches, and decks or within twenty-five feet of any combustible material or structure or within fifteen feet of the public right of way.


(2) Open burning conducted in an approved container (for example, a chiminea), which shall not be located within twenty-five feet of a structure or combustible material or within fifteen feet of the public right of way. Conditions such as combustible materials or strong winds that could cause a fire to spread to within twenty-five feet of a structure shall be eliminated prior to ignition.


(3) Recreational fires (for example, a fire pit or barbeque pit), which shall not be located within twenty-five feet of a structure or combustible material or within fifteen feet of the public right of way. The pile size shall be limited to three feet or less in diameter and two feet or less in height. Conditions such as combustible materials or strong winds that could cause a fire to spread to within twenty-five feet of a structure shall be eliminated prior to ignition.


(4) Heating of tar, welding, use of acetylene torches or highway safety flares, heating for warmth of outdoor workers, smudge pots and similar occupational needs.

I had the same thing happen to me two years ago. Like you, I was more annoyed that the neighbor didn't just call over to me rather than call the fire department.

I had a real nice captain or lieutenant tell me that we were within all code but that when a neighbor complains, they politely ask that you extinguish the fire, which we did. He also suggested keeping a hot dog on a stick within reach because as long as the fire is for "cooking," they wont ask you to put it out. I thanked him for the tip and we've never had another problem.

within 25 feet? that's got to rule out just about everyone in Lakewood as you would need a lot that is more than 50 feet wide to be that far away from an adjoining fence or garage.

In this case we were using the fire for cooking (smores)

perhaps it's time to switch to gas since I think I can make the 10' limit.

thanks for posting the rules. I'm sure I'm not the only one who might need the info.

Still miffed that my neighbors didn't feel comfortable confronting me directly.

Bret Callentine wrote:Still miffed that my neighbors didn't feel comfortable confronting me directly.

Brett

This is not Lakewood losing it home town feel. It still is desperately clinging to that as it
would seem some are hoping to turn Detroit into W. 25th.

This was slipping away when about 12 years ago, a neighbor complained about a radio being
too loud on West 27th street and the neighbor playing the radio shot him to death. Which
really resonated with the entire Cleveland area. It is an extension of firing practices in
large corporations from over a decade ago. Suddenly a security guard would appear at
your desk and ask you to put everything you owned into a small box and you would
be escorted to the front door. No confrontation ever.

It has just bled over into real life.

.

Bret Callentine wrote: is it time to open a discussion on changing some legislation?

It appears, Bret, that you just did.

Ah, the beauty of civic journalism!

This law was actually updated fairly recently. It was last reviewed, with at least one update, in September of 2010. Although I agree 25 is excessive for those who have responsible fires, the issue is that many who have fires are not educated in proper way to build and safely maintain a fire.

if you don't know how to safely maintain a fire I don't think even 25' would be enough distance.

was there an epidemic of house/structure fires caused by these pits? We annually hear about electrical fires, the hazards of christmas tree fires, and the ever popular potential inferno of a lit cigarette, but how many fire pits have been the cause of destruction over the past couple years?

seems to me this is another case of trying to create laws to keep people safe from those that don't follow the laws in the first place.

I believe there is at least one case in the last 5 years, but nothing monumental.

As for this law, I do not think this is a case of being passed because people weren't following the law. This is par of our fire code, which every city has, and I'm pretty sure at least aspects of the open burning laws have been on the books for a long time. They are there to try and keep people safe. Not just the people who are having the fire, but also those around them. History has shown time and time again the danger of fire and how quickly it can spread throughout a city (London, Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Arizona) so I do not blame them for trying to keep people safe. However, I do think the 25' restriction is a bit over zealous and unrealistic.

I agree that it would be nice if the neighbors could just talk, and they do often in my area, but this just is not always the case.

I would agree that people are weary to do so if you don't already know your neighbors very well. It's much easier to have law enforcement verify the legality and handle it accordingly. The problem is if the neighbors asks and the person with the fire pit refuses or becomes hostile... much easier to call LPD.

There's other things to take into consideration, even with grills....such as where is your smoke going when people have windows open in the summer?

J Hrlec wrote:where is your smoke going... ?

same could be asked of all those those smoking patios in front of restaurants/bars up and down Detroit and Madison?

Christopher Bindel wrote:1503.03 RESTRICTIONS; NOTICE AND PERMISSION.
(a) No person shall cause or allow outdoor burning in the Municipality, except as provided in subsections (b) through (g) hereof.


(b) When permitted by the property owner, outdoor burning shall be allowed for the following purposes without notification to or permission from the Ohio Environmental Protection Agency or the Chief of Fire or his or her designee:


(1) The cooking of food for human consumption utilizing appliances designed for cooking with charcoal, wood, stove fuel or cooking gas. The following conditions shall be met when cooking utilizing open burning or an open flame:


A. Charcoal burners utilizing charcoal briquettes, including wood chips, shall not be operated on balconies, porches, and decks or within ten feet of any combustible material or structure or within fifteen feet of the public right of way.


B. Liquid petroleum, gas-fueled cooking devices shall not be operated on balconies, porches or decks, or within ten feet of any combustible material or structure or within fifteen feet of the public right of way.


C. Fire in appliances designed for cooking utilizing seasoned dry firewood shall be permitted provided that such devices shall not be located on balconies, porches, and decks or within twenty-five feet of any combustible material or structure or within fifteen feet of the public right of way.


(2) Open burning conducted in an approved container (for example, a chiminea), which shall not be located within twenty-five feet of a structure or combustible material or within fifteen feet of the public right of way. Conditions such as combustible materials or strong winds that could cause a fire to spread to within twenty-five feet of a structure shall be eliminated prior to ignition.


(3) Recreational fires (for example, a fire pit or barbeque pit), which shall not be located within twenty-five feet of a structure or combustible material or within fifteen feet of the public right of way. The pile size shall be limited to three feet or less in diameter and two feet or less in height. Conditions such as combustible materials or strong winds that could cause a fire to spread to within twenty-five feet of a structure shall be eliminated prior to ignition.


(4) Heating of tar, welding, use of acetylene torches or highway safety flares, heating for warmth of outdoor workers, smudge pots and similar occupational needs.

Sounds like this would be the ideal fire pit:

Peter Grossetti wrote:

J Hrlec wrote:where is your smoke going... ?

same could be asked of all those those smoking patios in front of restaurants/bars up and down Detroit and Madison?

...and you should ask that question if this is problem for you. Not sure what your point is though, I think we're talking about residential housing and fire pits.

J Hrlec wrote:

Peter Grossetti wrote:

J Hrlec wrote:where is your smoke going... ?

same could be asked of all those those smoking patios in front of restaurants/bars up and down Detroit and Madison?

...and you should ask that question if this is problem for you. Not sure what your point is though, I think we're talking about residential housing and fire pits.

I am, in fact, looking into to it and asking around.

You're the one who brought up smoke.

J Hrlec wrote:The problem is if the neighbors asks and the person with the fire pit refuses or becomes hostile... much easier to call LPD.

I agree that it unfortunate that it has come to this, but with the proliferation of CCW permits and the such, I would rather LPD confront one of these civilian vigilante Barney Fife's than having to do it myself.