The Observation Deck

I have decided to post my coments here to try and move this thread along with out it questioning Councilman Juris' behavior every time a new post comes up.

Mr. Zannoni I agree history should not be covered up, however now that we know that the email was faked I think we can move away from that thread and let it be history, and continue the conversation about how it happened and the implications of it here.

Betsy Voinovich wrote:Anyway, as I said, I would have posted that email for my own protection, and then this long thread would have ensued, as everyone in their own way, tried to parse it out. I think everyone here did a relatively good job of handling it and being respectful.

Grace O'Malley wrote:Someone has definitely "got to go" and it's not Jim O'Bryan.

Grace O'Malley wrote:Well Shawn, if you are claiming that you did not send that email and someone is "manipulating" your account, that is YOUR responsibility to investigate if there is an alleged breach of YOUR email security. Have you contacted the police? Has a report been made?

But, if you did send it and you think you can pass it off as a fake email, rest assured that tracing the IP back is fairly easy to do.

Grace O'Malley wrote:The email clearly shows it came from the Juris Agency, which I believe is Shawn's business. It did not come from an anonymous Yahoo or Gmail account.

Grace O'Malley wrote:It's not a matter of guilty or innocent. Steve Davis presented an email that certainly looks like it came from Shawn Juris. The content of that email is disturbing, on many levels. Now Shawn claims he was not the sender of that email. Since it is Shawn's word against Steve Davis's tangible evidence

Grace O'Malley wrote:Let's be real, Shawn probably DID send that email, a grave mistake, then compounded the problem by denying he sent it when publicly exposed.

Grace O'Malley wrote:He seems to think the old "I didn't do it" routine has been used once again.

Grace O'Malley wrote:You all are so polite!

I'll restate my earlier post with my take on the matter: the email is legitimate and Shawn Juris denied it out of embarrassment -two juvenile lapses in judgment.

Grace O'Malley wrote:I think we can safely conclude that Shawn Juris DID send that email to Steve Davis.

Shawn should be ashamed of himself. Not only did he send that email, exhibiting such hubris that it borders on being delusions of grandeur, he made a second judgment error by denying that he sent it.

To me, this is highly indicative of a man unsuited for public office. Not only is he thin-skinned and vindictive, he is a liar.

Grace O'Malley wrote:Shawn said he was going to make a police report. He lied. FACT....So the FACTS are that Shawn LIED about making a police report and an investigation being underway.

The conjecture can then be made that Shawn DID NOT WANT the police investigating. Why? Let me guess? Because he KNEW there was no hacking and filing an official police report that was false would be a crime.

Grace O'Malley wrote:Since Shawn is a politician, I'll assume he realizes not everyone likes him. It's part of the job. I'm not the first or only person who thinks he's an idiot and I won't be the last, so get over it.

I don't know about civil, most of those comments seem pretty hostile to me. Now I know Grace was not the only one making harsh accusation, but she certainly was leading the charge. I don't question that this is a serious situation that needs to be considered and vetted, and that it has serious implications either way it turns out, but it should be done so with much more respect then was shown on the previous thread.

Ms. O'Malley, I do not mean to call you out, but you, more then anyone, showed more outrage and complete disdain for Councilman Juris. I just have to ask, what did he do that caused you to hate him so much?

I know we all have different beliefs and will disagree with each other but I have not witnessed so much hate for one person to another then you have shown toward Councilman Juris, and I honestly just am curious why. No snark, no sarcasm, true concern.

Wow.

When seen in serial format, that is some kind of invective sandwich alright

Ran across this article about email etiquette, but it lays out some interesting behavioral suggestions for any digital communication including forums like this, texting or even blogs.

Good, quick reading—and spot on as this thread kicks the can down the road. It offers advice worth practicing for sure— http://tinyurl.com/bvnywr4

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Christopher Bindel wrote:I have decided to post my coments here to try and move this thread along with out it questioning Councilman Juris' behavior every time a new post comes up.

Chris


I would think it is best for all to stay away from beating this to death.

For some reason you seem to think Councilman Juris was cleared, he was not. All we found
out was that his email was not "hacked." But you refuse to believe facts even when
presented by the Lakewood Police.

If Councilman Juris wants to clear his name, he is the only one who can do it at this point
and time. No one else has the ability to investigate this but him.

While it would be interesting to find out why Grace O'Malley hates Shawn, it would be just
as interesting to find out why Stephen Eisel, who no longer lives in Lakewood, and has tried
similar stunts before, like threatening to sue the library and Ken Warren with another
Lakewoodite, who dropped it to run for office. As he has stayed out of this discussion for
the most part, I left his name out. They were going to sue LPL and Ken with "their $700
an hour lawyer" if they did not shut the Observer down. For Stephen to continue his hatred
even after gladly leaving Lakewood for Rocky River seemed a tad over the top.

Then we have your constant plea for Councilman Juris to get the benefit of the doubt,
though he has never said he did not agree with the content or form of the message and
as many have noted, it mirrors other remarks by Councilman Juris in the past. Not giving
everyone the benefit of the doubt. Is this because we had words over me not allowing you
to use the Lakewood Observer, and its logo to shake down restaurant owners for Eaters of
Lakewood numerous times, or does it have more to do with your close friendship with
Councliman Juris?

What amazes me, is Steve gets a letter in the time frame Councilman Juris said he would
send it, about the very subject he wanted to talk to the Board about. So let's think here,
Counclman Juris wants me to step down, and wants to address the Board. Steve a board
member gets a semi-mild message from Councilman Juris about the exact subject that
he was demanding to talk about, and everyone thinks he should have questioned it? OK,
sure, I guess we would all doubt it at that point.

Steve stays out of it, I stay out of it, Shawn stays out of it, but a bunch of people without
any facts, and refusing to believe facts as they are handed out, continue to beat this to
death, for their own personal gain, not to answer a single question about the facts.

And you wonder why I roll my eyes when you talk about facts, background, information,
opinion, and how the paper is done.

Really?

Really?

Funny when I was talking with police, they asked who else would do it. This I agree with
Keith on, it was a short list, and all had reasons, and some have tried in the past, many times.

I am asking Councilman Juris to take the steps necessary to clear his name, so that we
can all move on with our lives, and all of you "Haters of The Observer" and "Haters of
Shawn Juris" can move on to the next meaningless topic to beat to death.

I repeat for the 5th time, The Lakewood Observer will do what is ever necessary to help
Shawn clear his name.


peace

Christopher Bindel wrote:I know we all have different beliefs and will disagree with each other but I have not witnessed so much hate for one person to another then you have shown toward Councilman Juris, and I honestly just am curious why. No snark, no sarcasm, true concern.

Councilman Juris seems like a nice enough guy to me. I don't understand the hate.

The entire thing reminds me of the OJ Simpson Trial.

"Too many people too happy, too many people too sad." - Chris Rock



Let's not get this wrong.

I have dedicated myself to Lakewood's discussion for almost 10 years.

I have never threatened to shut anyone up, I prefer giving them the rope...

This should be an outrage to all, still.

Confess your bias, or be truly impartial Chris.

Not a team sport.

.

I am probably the least techno-geekish person in the world (I still cherish the Deep Purple "Machine Head" 8-track tape my older brother gave me; just recently bought an electric lawn edger; and only within the last two months subscribed to Netflix online service ) ... so please bear with me when I ask: with all of today's technology, it's impossible to determine who sent the email in question? HUH?? Can somene explain to me (in layman's terms) why that is impossible.

Bill Call wrote:

Christopher Bindel wrote:I know we all have different beliefs and will disagree with each other but I have not witnessed so much hate for one person to another then you have shown toward Councilman Juris, and I honestly just am curious why. No snark, no sarcasm, true concern.

Councilman Juris seems like a nice enough guy to me. I don't understand the hate.

How exactly does one "clear their name" when their email account was spoofed?

They've gone on record denying it.

It's been proven repeatedly that it's child's play to anonymously create a spoofed email. There are ways to hide behind a proxy IP address that cannot be traced.

Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

So, when exactly did you stop taking candy from little children? Please provide proof.

Whoa Jim, I wasn't trying to start a fight. I was legitimately asking. I want to know how she believes she has been wronged by Shawn, not to question her feelings but to maybe try an understand where she is coming from. I'm just trying to gain some perspective. I'm sorry if you miss took my meaning or intent.

It is true that I am on friendly terms with Shawn but that does not mean I wasn't as concerned about the email as the rest of you and toyed with all possibilities of how it could have happened and played out, on both ends, him being guilty and innocent, I just decided to keep those toils to myself. And for the record, I did not say anything in this post about Shawn being cleared, I just said I wanted to move away from a thread that condemned him out right. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Jim O'Bryan wrote:If Councilman Juris wants to clear his name, he is the only one who can do it at this point
and time. No one else has the ability to investigate this but him.

I mean this sincerely because I don't know about it, but how can he investigate it further? It is my understanding that the email routing company in the Czech Republic deletes IP's after the email is sent, and they probably wouldn't share them with US law enforcement even if they didn't.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Then we have your constant plea for Councilman Juris to get the benefit of the doubt,
though he has never said he did not agree with the content or form of the message and
as many have noted, it mirrors other remarks by Councilman Juris in the past.

To be honest after the treatment hes been given on this board as of late I would not be surprised if he never comes on here again, and I wouldn't blame him. If you noticed he denied it in the beginning, then told everyone there was a police report and has not come back since. For his own legal and PR protection I think it was smart for him to stay away. And as for saying whether he agrees with it or not, he shouldn't have to, him stating that he did not send it should be enough.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Not giving
everyone the benefit of the doubt. Is this because we had words over me not allowing you
to use the Lakewood Observer, and its logo to shake down restaurant owners for Eaters of
Lakewood numerous times, or does it have more to do with your close friendship with
Councliman Juris?

Jim, I dont even know what you are trying to get at here? To begin with, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand so I have no idea why your dragging it in. Also it seems like you are taking my concern as a personal attack, I assure I meant nothing of the sort (especially since you weren't mentioned in my previous post).

Second of all, yes we had words over Eaters of Lakewood, but it was three years ago and we resolved it. I was upset because I had this idea and you told me the LO would support the group but several times you refused to post our articles because they were about restaurants that did not advertise with you. I still don't agree, but we resolved it and remained friendly and we now just don't even bother submitting articles. And shake down? What do you mean by that? We bring groups of people to a restaurant and patron them and try and give them exposure to more people. How is that a shake down?

And to the last point, as I said above, I am acquainted with Shawn, but you would be greatly mistaken if you don't think I didn't take this email seriously and consider all possibilities.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:What amazes me, is Steve gets a letter in the time frame Councilman Juris said he would
send it, about the very subject he wanted to talk to the Board about. So let's think here,
Counclman Juris wants me to step down, and wants to address the Board. Steve a board
member gets a semi-mild message from Councilman Juris about the exact subject that
he was demanding to talk about, and everyone thinks he should have questioned it? OK,
sure, I guess we would all doubt it at that point.

I'm not saying anything of the sort. Of course he should be concerned and take it seriously, I'm not questioning any actions taken by Steve.

I'm sorry if you think I am trying to pick a fight with you, I'm not. I was trying to show sincere interest and concern. Perhaps the reason Grace does not like Shawn is due to something that all of us would be concerned with if we knew, like the email, or maybe she just gets grated the wrong way by him, I'm just trying to understand.

While it would be interesting to find out why Grace O'Malley hates Shawn, it would be just
as interesting to find out why Stephen Eisel, who no longer lives in Lakewood, and has tried
similar stunts before, like threatening to sue the library and Ken Warren with another
Lakewoodite, who dropped it to run for office. As he has stayed out of this discussion for
the most part, I left his name out. They were going to sue LPL and Ken with "their $700
an hour lawyer" if they did not shut the Observer down. For Stephen to continue his hatred
even after gladly leaving Lakewood for Rocky River seemed a tad over the top.

What stunts? (be specific) As for the attorney, yes, I had an attorney review a specific post here on the Deck (in my opinion, the post bordered on slander). Funny, that thread along with the post in question disappeared quickly after the attorney got involved. The goal was never ever to shutdown the the Deck. Yes, I live in RR. Should I not support Lakewood, Lakewood Busineeses or be involved in Lakewood? Yes, I have been sticking up for Shawn. If asking questions or making light of all the nonsense and drama involved in e-mail thread makes me a hata then I am guilty as charged.

Bob Mehosky wrote:How exactly does one "clear their name" when their email account was spoofed?

They've gone on record denying it.

It's been proven repeatedly that it's child's play to anonymously create a spoofed email. There are ways to hide behind a proxy IP address that cannot be traced.

Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

So, when exactly did you stop taking candy from little children? Please provide proof.

Bob

I am not calling for anyone's head, merely answering the peanut gallery who have way too
much blood and anger in their eyes.

Well the easiest way to clear oneself would be to turn over the computer/computers and
allow the police to subpoena their ip records. To my knowledge, Steve Davis is the only
one who has done this. I have offered, but it was not needed as they were not
investigating the "impersonating a public official" just if Councilman Juris' email was
hacked.

The officer said that they could see who accessed the site, from that side. But as it was
not the investigation, they could not get subpoenas past the judge without reason. It
was then he asked if there was anyone else who might want to cause this kind of thing.
You know a trouble maker that seems overly interested in the entire thing. Well...

If Councilman Juris wants to go no farther, and that is his right not to, then the shadow of
doubt still exists for Steve, Shawn, me, the Observers and stone throwers that might have
known how to do this. "We cannot subpoena everyone in he city computers. But with
reasons and actions from Shawn they can certainly start to look harder at finding out who.

Me personally, it goes to the back burner, I have bigger issues, like theft of public
property that some have turned their blind eye to. The actual costs of what is going on
in Lakewood, and is the city really broke as the mayor says, or can we continue to spend
$$$$$ like a drunken sailor on plans that either have been around for 8 years, or with no
plans that really exist.

While Chris reports what goes on at council, someone needs to ask them real questions
and ask for real answers in return, without worrying about their personal friendships, or
possible fall out to businesses then own and operate in Lakewood.

.

Stephen Eisel wrote:What stunts? (be specific) As for the attorney, yes, I had an attorney review a specific post here on the Deck (in my opinion, the post bordered on slander). Funny, that thread along with the post in question disappeared quickly after the attorney got involved. The goal was never ever to shutdown the the Deck. Yes, I live in RR. Should I not support Lakewood, Lakewood Busineeses or be involved in Lakewood? Yes, I have been sticking up for Shawn. If asking questions or making light of all the nonsense and drama involved in e-mail thread makes me a hata then I am guilty as charged.

So you were just kidding on my porch that your only interest was to stir things up, and that
you thought he probably did it? Isn;t that what you have said to others.

No lawyer, as confessed to Kenneth, I still have the emails. And no thread has disappeared
from the Deck they are in archives. So please, let's be a little more accurate.

Stephen, my point, is that there are many reasons for many of the comments flying
around about this. The peanut gallery seems to have as many reasons than either
Councilman Juris or I at this point.

I merely thought as Chris is asking Grace about her hatred, maybe it would be best for all
to put all the cards on the table so that people can see and understand the players and
where they are coming from.

.

My friend Sam who is an attorney and graduated from Case looked / reviewed the post. Jim, and that is not what I said on your front porch.

Thanks for sharing your opinions, here are some of my own on the aftermath of this topic...

Jim O'Bryan wrote:

Christopher Bindel wrote:I have decided to post my coments here to try and move this thread along with out it questioning Councilman Juris' behavior every time a new post comes up.

Chris, I would think it is best for all to stay away from beating this to death.

It was beat to death after page #1 in on the original thread but few seemed to care much then. I mean read you responses below... I think the beating continues.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:For some reason you seem to think Councilman Juris was cleared, he was not. All we found out was that his email was not "hacked." But you refuse to believe facts even when presented by the Lakewood Police. If Councilman Juris wants to clear his name, he is the only one who can do it at this point and time. No one else has the ability to investigate this but him.

I believe he is cleared in this particular instance. Unless you want to go back to the accuse without proof thing again. I certainly would not expect the coucilman to do anything further and I certainly would never expect him to post in this hostile environment.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:While it would be interesting to find out why Grace O'Malley hates Shawn, it would be just as interesting to find out why Stephen Eisel, who no longer lives in Lakewood, and has tried similar stunts before, like threatening to sue the library and Ken Warren with another Lakewoodite, who dropped it to run for office. As he has stayed out of this discussion for the most part, I left his name out. They were going to sue LPL and Ken with "their $700 an hour lawyer" if they did not shut the Observer down. For Stephen to continue his hatred even after gladly leaving Lakewood for Rocky River seemed a tad over the top.

It's really not that interesting in terms of this discussion, and off this particular topic. Maybe we should post a screenshot of an email "sent" by Stephen calling you names and we can start attacking him too. This is about slandering a coucilman without verifiable proof, plain and simple (it was way beyond just questioning the subject). It really doesn't matter if you like him, or if he acted in a way you don't like outside of this "scandal".

Jim O'Bryan wrote:What amazes me, is Steve gets a letter in the time frame Councilman Juris said he would send it, about the very subject he wanted to talk to the Board about. So let's think here, Counclman Juris wants me to step down, and wants to address the Board. Steve a board member gets a semi-mild message from Councilman Juris about the exact subject that he was demanding to talk about, and everyone thinks he should have questioned it? OK, sure, I guess we would all doubt it at that point.

You should join Grace in the speculate and accuse game

Jim O'Bryan wrote:I am asking Councilman Juris to take the steps necessary to clear his name, so that we can all move on with our lives, and all of you "Haters of The Observer" and "Haters of Shawn Juris" can move on to the next meaningless topic to beat to death.

That's nice but I see no reason to do so since people will continue to beat the topic to death regardless, that is inevitable.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:I repeat for the 5th time, The Lakewood Observer will do what is ever necessary to help Shawn clear his name.

J Hrlec

Again, Shawn has sent similar messages many times. He hast posted things in similar
fashion here on the Deck, and maybe elsewhere. That is his right, those are his beliefs
I will actually defend him for those and posting those.

A silly little thing is when he became a public official, a whole different set of
rules emerged, and then it is time to take it a little more seriously. After all, Shawn
Juris Insurance, has nowhere near the might as Shawn Juris the Councilman.
The city of Lakewood is currently involved in a lawsuit over the city using it full force to
shut down a legal business. The lawsuit has been going on for 4 years, all other aspects of
it have been thrown out, except the city using its full force to shut down a business.

My attitude, and expressed to others at city hall. It is idiotic for anyone from city hall to
send anything like this out. As a private citizen, sure, as an elected official, no. Please
note I am not saying Stephen Eisel did anything illegal, not even saying Councilman Juris
did anything illegal. But I feel about the first amendment, the same way many feel about
the second amendment. The first amendment mostly deals with government intervention
on a person's right to speak, and the right of a more "powerful" entity silencing another.

Clearing this up
Steve a board member of the LO was at the police station with his computer and all of his
information before the actual report was filed. I have spoken with the police for hours, and
I am willing to help Councilman Juris and the police find out who did it. Again, until it is
cleared up I am as much a suspect as anyone else.

I will say, none of it makes sense. Why would Shawn use a spoof email for remarks he has
made before publicly? Why would anyone send it to Steve, one the mildest most laid back
members of the Observer Board seeking outrage. And to use Chris Bindel's thought
process, why would I? I could lose all of the papers and the hard work I have done
for the past 10 years. Why would I run Councilman Juris off the Deck, when it is clear, I
enjoy kicking it back and forth with him, it makes for interesting reading and drives the
views up not down. Someone mentioned him as an enemy. I find this ridiculous,
Councilman Juris is just a person with different views than my own, this is the basis for the
entire project, not the reason to drive someone off.

At the end of the day, I give Councilman Juris credit for at least wading into the guppy
pool, mosh pit of word jazz, and putting his words out there. It is far braver than many in
this town.

.