The Observation Deck

Hi everybody,

With the City Wide sale just ending, everybody's been talking about yard sales. The one ending was four days-- Thur thru Sunday? Or maybe thru Saturday. I didn't notice yesterday.

As you know Law Director Kevin Butler proposed limiting Lakewood garage sales to twice a year, for two days each. Councilman Anderson is in charge of the committee discussing this.

The Councilman has encouraged the public to speak up and let them know what they think, and stresses that this is UNDER DISCUSSION. THIS is the time to make your opinion known, at the Council meeting tonight, or if you can't make it-- or even if you can-- via email to the City Council.

I know there are some amazingly well-organized garage-salers out there who have been thinking about this.

I think a sale should be allowed from Thursday to Sunday. I think that the sale merchandise must be completely put away or disposed of (not kept on a porch or in a side yard) after the sale. I think the number of sales, if it has to be limited, should be something like 12 or at the smallest number, 6, in case people find themselves, like Jim O'Bryan's familiy did, having to have a sale once a week for a month to organize the emptying out of a house.

I'm concerned about the paper work here. Do we now have to apply to have yard sales? Are we going to pay a new person to do this?

Can't we enforce no more than four days and put away the stuff?

I hate that we would lose the freedom to just have a garage sale if we needed to have one, whenever it is that we finish cleaning. I don't want to have to get permits.

If the law is changed so there is a rule in place that directly targets people who have ongoing garage sales, isn't that enough?

Limit it to once a month, for 4 days? In this way, if anyone went beyond this, this could be enforced.

And as for the signs, I think we should be allowed to post signs on poles at the ends of our streets with clear dates and addresses that then get taken down. If this is illegal now, I think this should be made legal.

Anyway, that's my first stab at it. I'm going to get a little more organized and compose a letter to my Councilpeople right now, today, because their meeting is tonight, and I am unable to attend.

I am sure there are better thinkers and organizers than me who could propose helpful solutions, and make sure we get this done right.

PLEASE take a moment to email our Council so your experience can be put to work for our community. And if you have the time, post a copy of your suggestions here. It seems that together we could come up with the perfect solution.

Here are the addresses of our Council people, and Law Director:

Contact City Council: Powers- At Large (brian.powers@lakewoodoh.net); Smith- At Large (monique.smith@lakewoodoh.net); Nowlin- At Large (ryan.nowlin@lakewoodoh.net); Anderson-Ward 1(david.anderson@lakewoodoh.net); Bullock- Ward 2 (tom.bullock@lakewoodoh.net); Juris- Ward 3 (shawn.juris@lakewoodoh.net); Madigan- Ward 4 (mary.madigan@lakewoodoh.net)

Contact Law Director Butler: kevin.butler@lakewoodoh.net

Betsy Voinovich

Betsy Voinovich wrote:... their meeting is tonight ...

This Ordinance 32-12 was presented to Council by Director Butler at the 06/04/12 Council meeting where it was referred to Council's Housing Comittee chaired by Councilman Anderson. It was discussed at Housing Committee's 06/18/12 meeting.

Here is the text of the Housing Committee report to be presented at this eveneing's (07/02/12) Council meeting:

... a hearing regarding Ordinance 32-12 which proposes changes to Lakewood laws regarding garagd sales. Present were all members of the committee as well as Councilmembers Juris and Nowlin and a few members of the public. The administration proposed this ordinance and as such Directors Siley and Butler provided opening
comments regarding the administration position that Lakewood would benefit from making adjustments to our current code. To paraphrase the overwhelming majority of residents conduct gararge sales with much respect to their neighbors and neighborhood Unfortunately there are a handful of individuals who currently operate gararge sales on a habitual basis which places stress on a neighborhood and immediate neighbors. In fact nothing is in place to prevent a neighbor from operating garage sale every day of the year and some Lakewood residents are currently holding weekly sales. One, two, four
times a year is one thing. A weekly sale over a number of months is another. In addition residents do not have access to a complete set of rules. For example the time of day a sale can be held number of sales in one calendar year and the duration of any one sale are currently undefined. A more complete ordinance would also provide the city with a tool by which to approach the target of a complaint and have a conversation before things get out of hand as it has already with a few situations. Council members present reflected on the opening comments and a discussion was had about how best to
strike a balance between preventing a house from becoming a de facto flea market while helping individuals hold successful gararge sales. Specific components of the Ordinance discussed at the hearing included
Location on property
Time of day
Number of sales allowed in one calendar year
Duration for any one sale
Signage

A number of changes to the original Ordinance132 were suggested and the new version will be discussed at the next Housing Committee which will be held at 600pm on Monday July 9

Yours in service
David W Anderson
Councilman Ward 1

Since this (Ord 32-12) is on the agenda for tonight's Council meeting, pubic comment is allowed.

Section 121.08 of the Codified Ordinances of the City of Lakewood establishes rules for the public to follow when speaking before Council:

ADDRESSING COUNCIL – The President may recognize any non-member for addressing Council on any question then pending. In such cases, the person recognized shall address the chair, state his or her name and address and the subject matter he or she desires to discuss. Speakers must be courteous in their language and avoid personalities. When addressed by the Chair, the speaker must yield the floor and comply with all rulings of the chair, said rulings not being open to debate. Except with permission of Council specifically given, speakers shall be limited to five minutes. No person who has had the floor shall again be recognized until all others desiring an opportunity to speak have been given an opportunity to do so.

AGENDA ITEMS PROTOCOL --A citizen must first write his or her name, address and agenda item number on the designated sign-in sheet in order to be recognized.

The Clerk at the beginning of the meeting will present the AGENDA ITEMS sign-in sheet to the President of Council. Speakers will address Council after being called by the Chair.

PUBLIC COMMENT PROTOCOL -- A citizen must write his or her name, address and topic on the designated sign-in sheet in order to be recognized. The clerk at the end of the meeting will present the PUBLIC COMMENT sign-in sheet to the President of Council. Public Comment will be welcomed at the end of the Council Meeting on miscellaneous issues or issues other than agenda items. The forum is not designed to be a question and answer session.

Just sent to my Councilperson, the At Large Councilpersons and Mr. Anderson, cc-ing Mr Butler. (See Betsy's post if you need the email addresses.)

Dear Councilpersons --

I heard that there may be some new regulations on garage sales. My feelings:

1. I hope it's nothing too radically restrictive. Lakewood is known for great garage sales, and we don't want to dampen anything positive going on.

2. I support restricting garage sales to Thursdays 8:00 AM through Sundays 9:00 PM.

3. People should have to remove all items and signage immediately when sale is over.

4. I support restricting garage sales to 6 per year.

5. I do not support having to register your garage sale with the City, or paying a fee to the City.

6. I support being able to put a sign at either end of your own street of your own block during the time of the Garage Sale, as well as a sign in the yard of the home where the sale is taking place, as long as sign(s) is/are taken down by then end of the garage sale.

7. I support citations for those who don't comply with the above. Monitoring should at the instigation of neighbor complaints only.

Thank you.

Mike Zannoni
Victoria Ave.
Lakewood

Peter Grossetti wrote:

Betsy Voinovich wrote:... their meeting is tonight ...

This Ordinance 32-12 was presented to Council by Director Butler at the 06/04/12 Council meeting where it was referred to Council's Housing Comittee chaired by Councilman Anderson. It was discussed at Housing Committee's 06/18/12 meeting.

Here is the text of the Housing Committee report to be presented at this eveneing's (07/02/12) Council meeting:

... a hearing regarding Ordinance 32-12 which proposes changes to Lakewood laws regarding garagd sales. Present were all members of the committee as well as Councilmembers Juris and Nowlin and a few members of the public. The administration proposed this ordinance and as such Directors Siley and Butler provided opening
comments regarding the administration position that Lakewood would benefit from making adjustments to our current code. To paraphrase the overwhelming majority of residents conduct gararge sales with much respect to their neighbors and neighborhood Unfortunately there are a handful of individuals who currently operate gararge sales on a habitual basis which places stress on a neighborhood and immediate neighbors. In fact nothing is in place to prevent a neighbor from operating garage sale every day of the year and some Lakewood residents are currently holding weekly sales. One, two, four
times a year is one thing. A weekly sale over a number of months is another. In addition residents do not have access to a complete set of rules. For example the time of day a sale can be held number of sales in one calendar year and the duration of any one sale are currently undefined. A more complete ordinance would also provide the city with a tool by which to approach the target of a complaint and have a conversation before things get out of hand as it has already with a few situations. Council members present reflected on the opening comments and a discussion was had about how best to
strike a balance between preventing a house from becoming a de facto flea market while helping individuals hold successful gararge sales. Specific components of the Ordinance discussed at the hearing included
Location on property
Time of day
Number of sales allowed in one calendar year
Duration for any one sale
Signage

A number of changes to the original Ordinance132 were suggested and the new version will be discussed at the next Housing Committee which will be held at 600pm on Monday July 9

Yours in service
David W Anderson
Councilman Ward 1

Since this (Ord 32-12) is on the agenda for tonight's Council meeting, pubic comment is allowed.

Hi Peter,

Thanks for posting this. It helped me write the email that I just sent to Council. I am posting it here also:

Dear Council people,

I am writing concerning changes being made to the ordinance regulating garage sales as I know that this is currently under discussion.

To quote the Housing Committee Report from the 6/1/12 meeting:

"To paraphrase, the overwhelming majority of residents conduct garage sales with much respect to their neighbors and neighborhood. Unfortunately there are a handful of individuals who currently operate garage sales on a habitual basis which places stress on a neighborhood and immediate neighbors."

I feel that the proposed 2 sale a year, 2 day limit is very restrictive and doesn't acknowledge or address the overwhelming majority of Lakewood residents but instead punishes them for the "handful of individuals."

I feel that garage sales should be Thur through Sun, after that time, the sale items must be removed.

I think that it is unfair that the City posts signs to promote its own events and bans posting of neighbors' events. I would like it to be legal to make postings regarding
garage sales on public property (public) at the end of the streets where sales are being conducted, with signs displaying clearly the dates of the sale, and
addresses, so that if the signs are not removed in a timely fashion, the posters could then be cited. If a sign doesn't have info that identifies the person
posting, the sign could be immediately taken down. This could be expanded for community meetings, and lost pets, etc.

I feel that sales should be limited to once a month.

I don't think people should have to register or get permits to have a sale, or a sign, and that enforcement should occur when and if these rules are being
violated.


Thank you very much for your time and attention.

Betsy Voinovich

Lakewood Resident
Ward 2

Also thanks for listing the time for the next Housing Committee meeting where this will be discussed. 6pm on Monday July 9.

Betsy Voinovich

Remember, everyone, most of Council's work is done in the various Committee meetings ... often held prior to the every-other-Monday full Concil meeting. These meetings are open to the public and are posted at [url]onelakewood.com[/url].


For instance .. tonight:
Public Works Committee Meeting - Monday, July 02, 2012 5:30 PM
Finance Committee Meeting - Monday, July 02, 2012 6:00 PM
Rules & Ordinances Commitee Meeting - Monday, July 02, 2012 6:30 PM
Committee of the Whole Meeting - Monday, July 02, 2012 6:45 PM

Hello, Betsy and all.

I pledged in a related thread to post the second iteration of proposed ordinance 32-12 prior to the next Housing Committee hearing on garage/yard sales. Please see the attached.

The Housing Committee held a first hearing on this proposed legislation on June 18 and a second hearing is scheduled for 6:00 p.m. on Monday, July 9.

As I posted on the other thread, I feel a legitimate case has been made as to why such an ordinance is needed in the first place. Lakewood has a handful of residents who are holding weekly sales for most months of the year. This is placing stress on their neighbors and their neighborhoods. In response, I believe Council is working to find a balance between preventing a house from becoming a de facto flea market - protecting the neighborhood -while helping individuals hold successful yard/garage sales.

Members of Council voiced legitimate concerns and great ideas at the June 18 hearing. I have worked with the administration to make adjustments to the original draft ordinance which, again, is attached.

Lakewood's current ordinance does not specify an allowable number of sales in one year, how many days such a sale can take place nor the hours of the day these can be held. The attached draft specifies these points in the following way:

- Up to 4 sales can be held at any one property each calendar year.
- Sales can be held for up to four consecutive days.
- Hours of sales shall be anywhere between 8:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m.
- Three signs may be temporarily displayed one day prior to and during the sale.

Regarding enforcement, city officials are not going to be driving around the city on weekends looking for noncompliance. However, this more complete ordinance would provide the city with a tool by which to approach the target of a complaint and have a conversation before things get out of hand (as it has already with a few situations).

I will do my best to follow this thread and respond to ideas, questions and concerns.

Yours in service,

David W. Anderson
Councilman, Ward 1
216-789-6463
David.Anderson@lakewoodoh.net

David Anderson wrote:The attached draft specifies these points in the following way:

- Up to 4 sales can be held at any one property each calendar year.
- Sales can be held for up to four consecutive days.
- Hours of sales shall be anywhere between 8:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m.
- Three signs may be temporarily displayed one day prior to and during the sale.

David,

Thank you.

Frankly, the "Up to 4 sales can be held at any one property each calendar year" provision seems arbitrary, at best.

What actual facts and data did City Council rely upon to come up with limiting me to 4 sales per calendar year?

You state that the purpose of these revisions is to address "a handful of residents who are holding weekly sales for most months of the year." So, why limit me to only 4? Is 5 a problem? How about 6? Again, the number seems pretty arbitrary.

The other three provisions, as set forth above, seem reasonable to me.

Please focus on the purpose of the revisions - i.e., addressing the "handful of residents who are holding weekly sales for most months of the year."

As an aside, please also encourage your colleagues to seek input as well.

Again, thank you.

Matt

The (revised) Ordinance uses the terms "...personal and household goods and furnishings..."

Are there Ordinances on the books that define "personal and household goods and furnishings?" Or is this definition found in another part Section 741.071, Display for Sale of Household Goods and Furnishings from Nonretail Occupancies?

Does "personal and household goods and furnishings" include guns? Mattresses? Pillows? Homemade jams/jellies in pressure sealed canning jars? Hotwheels cars? Tomatoes/squash/etc. from my patio garden?

It also appears that the Ordinance only adresses single-, two- or three-family home in a residential zone. I remember some discusion at the 06/18/12 Housing Committee meeting about how the Ordinance might want to address condos and apartment buildings.

The Ordinance also states: "No more than four such sales may be conducted at any one property in any one calendar year." Wouldn't a more equitable solution be that each family (not property) be allowed up to four such sales per year?

Matthew John Markling wrote:

David Anderson wrote:The attached draft specifies these points in the following way:

- Up to 4 sales can be held at any one property each calendar year.
- Sales can be held for up to four consecutive days.
- Hours of sales shall be anywhere between 8:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m.
- Three signs may be temporarily displayed one day prior to and during the sale.

David,

Thank you.

Frankly, the "Up to 4 sales can be held at any one property each calendar year" provision seems arbitrary, at best.

What actual facts and data did City Council rely upon to come up with limiting me to 4 sales per calendar year?

You state that the purpose of these revisions is to address "a handful of residents who are holding weekly sales for most months of the year." So, why limit me to only 4? Is 5 a problem? How about 6? Again, the number seems pretty arbitrary.

The other three provisions, as set forth above, seem reasonable to me.

Please focus on the purpose of the revisions - i.e., addressing the "handful of residents who are holding weekly sales for most months of the year."

As an aside, please also encourage your colleagues to seek input as well.

Again, thank you.

Matt

Hi David,

Thank you for posting the updated status of this. Like Matt, I wonder how the number of sales was arrived at-- and wonder if the "handful of residents who are holding weekly sales for most months of the year" are addressed.

Can you make a provision that specifically states that the sale items must be removed from outside of the property after the four days? A bunch of stuff around is what makes these homes unsightly.

I guess in the areas where people are running constant garage sales, if the law said, "once a month" there would be those people who would have them once a month and that might still feel like harassment to people who live there. How about 6 times a year? Again, I'm trying to go for the middle, instead of making laws to fit the extremes and punish the majority.

It's great to hear that you and your committee are weighing these factors.

As far as posting signs at the ends of one's street--- can this be brought up? Deck posters have said they've watched our police taking down garage sale signs seconds after they were put up. Can there be standards for these temporary signs?

Again, thank you for including citizens feelings in your discussions and making the effort to find out what they are, and making the effort to represent them in your discussions.

After I sent my email to our Council representatives yesterday, Councilman Anderson posted very soon after, and I got an almost immediate email reply from Councilman Powers, telling me that he would send the updated status of the discussion-- that Councilman Anderson posted here on the Deck-- and reassuring me that the issues that I had were exactly what was being discussed.

Thank you for taking the time and making the effort.

Betsy Voinovich

Hi all,

I wanted to remind everybody that if you have opinions that you haven't seen expressed here in Councilman Anderson's post, that you have time to email City Council about what you think the appropriate and fair structure of Lakewood garage sales would be.

Councilman Powers followed up last week with an additional email which included addressing the sign issue, which I was really pleased to see. Here's his email:

Powers, Brian Brian.Powers@lakewoodoh.net

Jul 3 (3 days ago)

to me
Hi Betsy:

Dave Anderson gave an "interim report" at the Council meeting last night. He basically reviewed the draft ordinance that I sent you yesterday and mentioned that the Housing Committee (of which he is Chair) will continue to seek community input. Although I'm not officially on that Committee, I will of course stay involved and will keep your input in mind. For example, I think posting at the end of streets is perfectly fine.

This may come up for a vote at the July 16 meeting. We look forward to your continued involvement.

Happy 4th!


It's great that Councilman Powers thinks it's fine to post signs at the end of streets. That would be a wonderful thing if we could officially do that.

So-- it works! Write to your Councilperson. Or all of them.

The Housing Committee is holding its second hearing on this proposed legislation THIS MONDAY, July 9 at 6:00 p.m. The meeting is open to the public, and according to Councilman Anderson our suggestions will be discussed.

Betsy Voinovich

I am glad you are doing something to make your opinions know, and going about it the right way and staying in contact and involved through you council members. Unfortunately though, no one showed up to the meeting on Monday to share your views.

17 people attended the meeting in the audience
4 were from some form of media outlet
1 was an intern
2 were being honored by council
4 were the parents of the 2 being honored
2 spoke on unrelated issues
4 unknown but did not speak (Mr. Grossetti being one of them)

Christopher Bindel wrote:4 unknown but did not speak (Mr. Grossetti being one of them)

Christopher: you identified me as being unknown???? Huh???

See you at July 9 (6PM) Housing Committee meeting where I believe my view will be better received. Hope you will introduce yourself as I don't know you from The Proverbial Adam. I love meeting my neighbors.

Sorry Peter, that should be 4: purpose for attendance unknown.

I will be sure to introduce myself next time I see you, although I do not think it will be the housing committee meeting. I actually thought you knew who I was, I have seen you at many of the same meetings I've been at recently. I'm the one in the front row with a black Toshiba lap top and a recorder at the council meetings.

For the record ... I attend to observe.

Christopher Bindel wrote:I am glad you are doing something to make your opinions know, and going about it the right way and staying in contact and involved through you council members. Unfortunately though, no one showed up to the meeting on Monday to share your views.

Hi Chris,

Attending Council meetings to speak during the allotted public communication time is not the only way to share our views with the Council, as Councilpeople David Anderson, Shawn Juris, Monique Smith, recently Brian Powers, Law Director Kevin Butler and even Mayor Summers himself have made clear.

Mr. Butler invited email responses to his garage sale ordinance recommendations, Councilman David Anderson did the same, and went a step further, committing to responding to people's concerns and suggestions on the Deck.

David Anderson wrote:I pledged in a related thread to post the second iteration of proposed ordinance 32-12 prior to the next Housing Committee hearing on garage/yard sales. Please see the attached.

And:

I will do my best to follow this thread and respond to ideas, questions and concerns.

Yours in service,

David W. Anderson

When I wrote to Councilperson Monique Smith expressing my concern over Council's changing their two-reading rule, I asked that she read my email into the record during the public communication period, and she did, and the issue was discussed and vetted, in emails, on the Deck, and in the Council, with citizens and their elected representatives communicating in whatever way they could most effectively achieve.

When I emailed the Mayor and Council asking for the justification for taking down our traffic lights, I asked that they give me responses that I could share with the community on the Deck.

Councilman Juris told me to "tell my friends to walk to the next available traffic light." I shared that on the Deck at the time, as I had committed to doing.

Mayor Summers took the time to go into full details about the traffic study that had been done, the difficulties with coming up with a solution that pleased both citizens and the State of Ohio and described the compromise that the City of Lakewood was trying out. I also shared the mayor's comments on the Deck at the time.

For me, Mayor Summers' comments made me feel a lot better, even as I might have questioned the wisdom of part of the decision (a traffic study from 2009, etc.)

The point here isn't that Lakewood citizens will get upset if they don't get what they want. The point is that they need to be an active part of the process, with their feelings, concerns and suggestions being taken into account when decisions are made by their own representatives.

Since it is the representatives ONLY job to represent the citizens of Lakewood, ie, we can't all be on the City Council, it's not practical, it's gratifying that some of them reach out and look for ways to gather public opinion, and make sure that the ideas of the people are a part of the discussion that is had.

The Mayor and the Council aren't royalty who "grant an audience" at Council meetings, they are a vital part of a representative Democracy. Though the Council meeting public communication period is one way to communicate, especially when a lot of people want to get together to make their opinions known in one session, as was the case with the Hens in Lakewood group, it is only one of the ways. A public assembly/communication way.

I think it's great that our Council and our Administration make attempts to reach out, and it's great that they listen. We all have to work together on this "transparency and accountability" thing.

We have more active participation in Lakewood than in most communities. The more we share with each other not only that it's important that we are part of the process, but that we share with each other HOW we can become part of the process, the better.

And of course we all have to vote.

By the way, Chris, thank you for being such a big part of making this happen; it's not easy to attend every meeting and put out such a comprehensive account of what goes on.

Betsy Voinovich