The Observation Deck

i'm wondering about why some establishments get to have obstructive outdoor patios and others not. for instance, angelo's. their patio is hard to navigate when riding a bike (i dare not ride in the street on madison) let alone if some mother is rolling her stroller. it's an accident waiting to happen.

some of these outdoor, out front patios are not condusive to pedestrians let alone bike riders yet they are allowed.

however, places like the mars bar who have ample sidewalk to accommodate both patrons and pedestrians cannot put it up.

why angelo's? why el tango? why not merry arts? why not mars bar?

if you are gonna screw pedestrians and bike riders alike then why not let all eateries all move out to the curb and make this city ridiculously unnavigable?

i thought this was a "walkable city", a "bike rider's paradise"?

oh wait...drivers are getting screwed too. just look at detroit avenue.

Kate

Outdoor patios are based on the owner of the establishment fixing up the front of their
business enough to make the Building Department happy, then they get a patio. Some of
my favorite patios are Peppers, El Tango Taqueria, and was the Mars Bar. All are ultra
small with the server having to work from outside of the patio.

Mars Bar moved their to behind the building where now it is bigger.

What my though is if the city is doing this why are we still building buildings right to the
front of the property line? That seems counter productive.


.

i know, you would think that patios out front would be good for business and for the city. i live on top of the beer engine and their patio is hopping without messing with pedestrians.

by the way the mars bar had their back patio long before their front.

i just don't understand why the city will let some places obstruct sidewalks and not others.

i like to see people out front of a place having fun, laughing, but within reason. people walk around here. ride bikes. take their kids for a stroll. this is all hard to do when the restaurant encroaches on public sidewalk.

why some and not others?

as a bike rider and child walker i want to know.

and could at least the city move some of their garbage cans to the opposite side of these so called patios so we median income people can get through? (a whole separate topic i know).

kate e parker wrote:i know, you would think that patios out front would be good for business and for the city. i live on top of the beer engine and their patio is hopping without messing with pedestrians.

by the way the mars bar had their back patio long before their front.

i just don't understand why the city will let some places obstruct sidewalks and not others.

i like to see people out front of a place having fun, laughing, but within reason. people walk around here. ride bikes. take their kids for a stroll. this is all hard to do when the restaurant encroaches on public sidewalk.

why some and not others?

as a bike rider and child walker i want to know.

and could at least the city move some of their garbage cans to the opposite side of these so called patios so we median income people can get through? (a whole separate topic i know).

Kate


What you are talking about would require P-L-A-N-N-I-N-G.

I had to smile the other day when Dru Siley was introduced as Director of Development
and Building. It would seem that the city has realized there are no plans and they are
just doing whatever so took the suggestion and dropped it from the name.

What sense is it, when you claim to be walkable and bikeable, and you congest sidewalks?
What sense does it make to have the library build back from the street for greenspace,
and landscaping and art, then you MAKE CVS ruin the view?

Last night I was out walking and driving the city and it was amazing how much signage
the new signage blocks. In front of the Root is a Stop here on red sign. Which you cannot
even see with the bike rack sign which is actually larger than a stop sign 2' right in front
of it.

As for the patios, I thought it was a good idea. Now that we do not have streetcars not
sure Development and Planning are aware of that, we no longer have to build to the street.
Since those wonderful days of streetcars, not sure anyone in the Development and Building
Department was even alive when there were streetcars. We have come a long way,
especially in clothing and outwear that keeps us dry and warm on that long walk from the
car/bike/horse/streetcar/lolly the trolley whatever.

But again it underlines the hypocrisy coming from leadership on all levels. We want our
streets to respect the historical nature of a streetcar community, but we have to tear down
every piece of history that goes back to those days and put up a drive thru of one kind or
another.

Have you asked the Mars Bar why they took down their front patio?

.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Have you asked the Mars Bar why they took down their front patio?

when i asked george about it he muttered something about the city. dont know why there should be an issue as he has had a front patio the past few summers.

Why are you riding your bike on the sidewalk in the first place?

The city has established clear guidelines for outdoor dining in the city. They are here:

http://onelakewood.com/pdf/Outdoor_Desi ... _FINAL.pdf

Looks like they must leave 5' clear on the sidewalk for passersby.

I know that any place that wants to do outdoor dining has to go in front of the ABR. I just checked the docket on onelakewood.com and it looks like MerryArts is going in front of them next week to get approval for outdoor dining. Might be something you could check out to see what the process is and how the decision is made for approval.

When Rozi's was discussing with the City about putting a patio in front of the store, on the sidewalk, they came out and spoke in detail about the laws, restrictions and variances. In the end, and because of the width of the sidewalk in front of the building, it would have left Rozi's with a 30 inch by 60 foot bowling alley of a patio (without the ability to serve alcohol on it because of the state liquor law requirements). It did not make sense for us. So it was designed as a built in patio/porch which fits all city and state liquor requirements and variances. It just made sense for Rozi's. I'm sure all storefronts have their own reasons, but ours is our own indivual case, as are all of the cases.

Throughout the process, I thought the City variances and restrictions were reasonable in terms of the room required for pedestrians (I have traveled the sidewalks of Lakewood many times as a pedestrian, with a stroller, a double stroller and with youth bike riders). Rozi's also had to take into consideration light poles and traffic signals (in front of the store) as obstructions to the sidewalk, which favored on the pedestrians side when it came to measuring out the sidewalk.

Corey

Myra Beckrest wrote:Why are you riding your bike on the sidewalk in the first place?

because it is my right. also because riding in the street on madison can be quite harrowing when it comes to traffic.

thank you, valerie, for the info. very much appreciated.

kate e parker wrote:

Myra Beckrest wrote:Why are you riding your bike on the sidewalk in the first place?

because it is my right. also because riding in the street on madison can be quite harrowing when it comes to traffic.

thank you, valerie, for the info. very much appreciated.

It is your right, but I'm also curious if you voted in favor of banning smoking indoors. If you did, you have your answer as to why all of these patios started popping up and infringing on your ease to ride your bike on the sidewalks.

Prior to the smoking ban, if you wanted a patio you'd go to Pacers. Since the ban, there are patios everywhere. (LOVE Sullivan's patio btw )

Sometimes you just can't have your cake and eat it too.

lemme quelch your curiosity...

im a smoker and a bar patron. used to be both at once back in the day.

so, no. i did not vote to ban smoking.

and to be clear, i'm not against outdoor patios either. i just had some questions about them here in lakewood.

kate e parker wrote:i'm wondering about why some establishments get to have obstructive outdoor patios and others not. for instance, angelo's. their patio is hard to navigate when riding a bike (i dare not ride in the street on madison) let alone if some mother is rolling her stroller. it's an accident waiting to happen.

some of these outdoor, out front patios are not condusive to pedestrians let alone bike riders yet they are allowed.

I few years ago I posted an article titled "The Madison Avenue Cafe District". The general idea was to expand sidewalks, narrow the street, add off street parking, bike racks and landscaping to provide the space for full size street level patios. I thought the area from Bunts to Madison Park would be the perfect location.

The plan ultimately adopted by the City was much to timid. Like most timid plans it failed to take full advantage of the idea and are something of a negative.

Theoriginal idea was to restore some trendyness to Madison and improve the general business climate. Fully implementing the plan would have required some development dollars from the County.

The plans for resurfacing Madison would seem to offer the right timing to implement a bolder vision. However, that would require some development dollars from the County or State. Since Lakewood is not elligible for those development dollars I guess we are stuck with what we have.

Maybe the County would be interested if we titled the plan "The Madison Avenue Dollar Store Homeless Resettlement Assistance Plan."

I was walking down Madison near Mahall's last night.

an old guy on a bicycle crashed into me on the sidewalk.

He seemed to have some speech impediment, as if having survived a stroke.

so, if you are riding on the sidewalk, try not to crash into anyone.

I'm not sure our weather makes investing a lot in patios a good decision, but they seem to be popular. A rear patio, if you have the room, gives privacy, but isn't much good for people watching. A front patio is good for people watching, which is very popular, but I think there are certain restrictions in Ohio, such as a fence, if you are serving alcohol.

To me, the ideal situation would be to make Detroit a pedestrian only street, run a trolley or tram back and forth, and use the rest of the space for larger patios and kiosks. Patios are much nicer when you don't have to deal with exhaust fumes. Of course, we would have to convince the State to agree, as it is currently a State Route.

Will Brown wrote:I'm not sure our weather makes investing a lot in patios a good decision, but they seem to be popular. A rear patio, if you have the room, gives privacy, but isn't much good for people watching. A front patio is good for people watching, which is very popular, but I think there are certain restrictions in Ohio, such as a fence, if you are serving alcohol.

To me, the ideal situation would be to make Detroit a pedestrian only street, run a trolley or tram back and forth, and use the rest of the space for larger patios and kiosks. Patios are much nicer when you don't have to deal with exhaust fumes. Of course, we would have to convince the State to agree, as it is currently a State Route.

I think making Detroit (in the downtown area) into a pedestrian area only would be a great idea. Of course, this is without looking deeper into all the factors surrounding such a transformation or restrictions to what can be done legally. That area has never been a good thoroughfare in that area for cars in the past or today.