The Observation Deck

Hi all,

I've been seeing the notices that the traffic lights at Detroit and Mars, Detroit and Manor Park and Detroit and Hall are going to be removed. Why is this? As a person who does a lot of walking to the library and Drug Mart, etc, I feel that it's hard enough to get across the street during business hours with the lights that we have. There will be more traffic at Hall if there is a McDonalds near there, why would we want (or need) fewer traffic lights?

Can anybody give me some information about why this is happening?

Betsy Voinovich

I was not aware (Manor park and Detroit) until my daughter told me so I emailed members of the council
Response below
From: Juris, Shawn [mailto:Shawn.Juris@lakewoodoh.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 11:58 AM
To: rklann@rpmadison.com; Bullock, Tom; Nowlin, Ryan; Powers, Brian; Smith, Monique
Subject: RE: safety - student crossing - removal of signal

Good Afternoon Mr. Klann,
Yes, the light at Manor Park is scheduled to be removed permanently on February 15th as part of Phase 2 of the Detroit Signalization project.

Shawn Juris
City Council Ward 3

You don't want to slow down people headed to the new McDonalds, do you?

I am sure traffic studies were done but did they look at the impact on pedestrians? I worry about the kids and elderly crossing downtown near the library and drug mart.

Also many people drive up Manor Park from Clifton in the morning to go to LHS, I happen to be one of those parents. This morning was a disaster trying to get across Detroit. I will find an alternative route with a stop light to cross Detroit.

I have heard this is to move traffic quickly down Detroit which is what the state wants. But that doesn't quite work in a city with a high concentration of walkers. They need safe places to cross, especially elderly and children who don't always move as quickly as others would prefer. Sadly this is what happens when the people making the decisions have no individual investment in the city.

yes, the study included many components including pedestrians and school crosswalks among other things.
having traffic lights that are warranted based on volume is quite different than encouraging traffic to move quickly.

So when exactly were the studies done? Did they look at Manor Park between 7:00am and 7:45am? Because someone from the state should go sit there for a few days at that time of the morning. I have had several people tell me today that while taking their kids to school they had near misses. It just seems odd to pull two lights that are right by schools. Plus the light at Mars is at an intersection heavily used by librarian patrons and folks crossing over to Drug Mart. These three light being removed just doesn't make sense and I am afraid some unfortunate soul is going to be hurt or killed.

In the 1980s, when the current signals were put up, some were eliminated. The City argued the points, however Hall/Detroit and Victoria/Madison were eliminated. The City had to reinstall those at City expense.

The problem was that the State employed out-of-town traffic firms that did not know the City of Lakewood. They used a one-size-fits-all, cookie-cutter approach that counted cars and not people. It was amazing they discounted the traffic light right in front of the entrance to Detroit Theatrer, which was showing kid matinees at the time.

Isn't there a light at Detroit and Arthur? Seems a light being removed a short block away would not pose a problem.

The one at Manor Park I am not sure about, since I think the next crossing is a number of blocks away?

Edward Favre wrote:In the 1980s, when the current signals were put up, some were eliminated. The City argued the points, however Hall/Detroit and Victoria/Madison were eliminated. The City had to reinstall those at City expense.

The problem was that the State employed out-of-town traffic firms that did not know the City of Lakewood. They used a one-size-fits-all, cookie-cutter approach that counted cars and not people. It was amazing they discounted the traffic light right in front of the entrance to Detroit Theatrer, which was showing kid matinees at the time.

Hi Ed,

What is your impression of whether the State may once again have employed "a one-size-fits-all, cookie-cutter approach that counted cars and not people." Did the City complain to the State in the 80's, and point out that their poorly designed study ended up hurting the city which contained the street that they were studying? To the degree that to keep its residents safe, the City had to re-install lights that the State had taken down, at City expense?

It sounds like the same firm may have been employed. I'm assuming that the current Lakewood Administration knows the story of what happened the first time. I'm assuming that we're not doomed to repeat history and the City reviewed the study etc...?

Do you know?

Thank you, and thank you for helping put this in perspective.

Betsy Voinovich

Hey!

Maybe now we can get a bus stop in front of the library where it belongs.

-30-

The main problem I have with the Manor Park intersection is the sight lines are so terrible a car has to stop in the crosswalk to see east in order to turn right safely. It's a tragedy waiting to happen. The engineer who designed this one should be charged with a crime if something happens.

Mike Coleman wrote:The main problem I have with the Manor Park intersection is the sight lines are so terrible a car has to stop in the crosswalk to see east in order to turn right safely. It's a tragedy waiting to happen. The engineer who designed this one should be charged with a crime if something happens.

I couldn't agree more, Mike. Trouble is, you can't legislate intelligence (or lack thereof).

Nor can can you legislate common courtesy! (I speak, of course, about how people park on our side streets... in such a manner that only one car can be parked between the driveways -when the large majority of such spaces could fit two cars!!! SELFISH BASTARDS!)

I'll add one to the above... people who park in the street instead of the driveway if they have one (non-emergency situations)

I am so glad to see this thread! Removing that traffic light at Manor Park and Detroit is already a nightmare. There are a lot of disabled people who cross that intersection. I almost saw an elderly man in a motorized wheelchair get nailed by a car last night. At the same time there was nearly another accident unrelated to the first incident. This was all in a matter of a minute or two. The gas station is very busy, lots of people walking, wheelchairs, etc. going to Giant Eagle. The line of sight is terrible. There is ALWAYS a lot of traffic there. I drive that way to work every morning around 6:30 and it is busy, it is much harder to get down to Clifton now I may need to take a different route. My children ride that way to get to Lakewood Park. I cannot emphasize what a nightmare it now is that there is just a flashing light. I can't even imagine it without this minimal caution that exists now.

Please I really hope this can be stopped.

I agree. I don't care how many cars travel there. There are terrible sightlines. Can't even blame the drivers. You have to stop in the crosswalk to see left or right. I have to think this was a study based on a computer counting cars rather than an engineer onsite actually looking at clearances, etc. It's a deathtrap.