Retail Development and Tax Revenue

[Michael Loje]

While reading about the Lincoln Electric wind generator, a thought came to me. We have a relatively new industrial building in Hinkley Lighting on Berea Road. East of it are Hinkley's collection of older buildings. I believe the whole complex is for sale. The newer building is of "high cube" design, 40 foot high ceilings strictly for warehousing. This would require a specific type of buyer. The older buildings would be occupied by a variety of smaller tenants, much like Lake Erie Screw. If the whole sight were cleared, this would make a great sight for something like a WalMart and some fast food joints. Think about it. No matter what you think of WalMart, they pay taxes. And it's a location that would not dilute our traditional commercial districts.
Whats everybody think?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Well, there is much better use than that, I can assure you.

I do not think it is big enough for a WalMart, however I know one Lakewood owned business
that could move across the street and send a signal Lakewood is the right place for business.


FWIW


.

[J Hrlec]

Sounds OK? Mostly anything is better than empty buildings.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Sounds OK? Mostly anything is better than empty buildings.

On Berea Road yes.

I was talking with someone last night who was rushing out to a meeting, as was I, but
he threw a pretty wild number out.

He asked how many Burger Kings would it take to equal the tax revenue, of the doubles in
Lakewood? I had no idea, and he said based on Lakewood doubles, and Lakewood's Burger Kings, 450. Made me think.

So may somethings are better then empty buildings, but those some things are not
created equal.

FWIW


.

[J Hrlec]

Sounds OK? Mostly anything is better than empty buildings.

On Berea Road yes.

I was talking with someone last night who was rushing out to a meeting, as was I, but
he threw a pretty wild number out.

He asked how many Burger Kings would it take to equal the tax revenue, of the doubles in
Lakewood? I had no idea, and he said based on Lakewood doubles, and Lakewood's Burger Kings, 450. Made me think.

So may somethings are better then empty buildings, but those some things are not
created equal.

FWIW

.

I agree that things are not always equal. Using your example, a place such as a BK may or may not pull in less tax than a Lakewood double (unknown)... but the BK may serve a much greater number of people in the community rather than the X number of residents and/or absentee landlord of the double. Plus it could fill a vacant commercial space which is an eyesore and bad impression. So it could really go either way.

Just some thoughts... but I'll stick with my initial comment for the thread.

"mostly anything is better than empty buildings"

[Thealexa Becker]

Sounds OK? Mostly anything is better than empty buildings.

This. Exactly.

[Bryan Schwegler]

He asked how many Burger Kings would it take to equal the tax revenue, of the doubles in
Lakewood? I had no idea, and he said based on Lakewood doubles, and Lakewood's Burger Kings, 450. Made me think.

Of course it's never an either/or proposition. There are many combinations.

[Will Brown]

I'd want to see some data before I believed your figure of relative tax revenues.

I don't know how Lakewood handles business income for tax purposes, but I know that many businesses (including renters of doubles) depreciate much of their property, and when mortgage and maintenance expenses are counted in, it is common that they claim a loss and pay no tax.

Both types of property would pay real estate taxes; what are the various rates and exemptions? You would need to have that information to know what the real estate tax revenue is. Employees of a real business are subject to income tax, and the business would be certain to withhold for that. Renters who are employed are also subject to income tax, but I would want to know what Lakewood is doing to insure this tax is paid. Further, many owners of doubles and their tenants are elderly and don't have jobs, so they pay no income tax. Young people may be willing to rent a double when they are just starting out, but when the second child comes along they need more space and start looking for it.

So I would want to see some hard data in support of a statement allegedly dashed off by an unnamed source, who was in a hurry to get away from the poster.

It could very well be, if owners and tenants in multifamily houses, are elderly, and take advantage of the many special services Lakewood offers the elderly, that multifamily houses are more of a drain than an asset.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I'd want to see some data before I believed your figure of relative tax revenues.

I don't know how Lakewood handles business income for tax purposes, but I know that many businesses (including renters of doubles) depreciate much of their property, and when mortgage and maintenance expenses are counted in, it is common that they claim a loss and pay no tax.

Will

I will present all of these numbers shortly, and they will be presented to council as well. It
is part of a discussion I have been having with members of council, and developers in
various cities.

While their are many variations I was told this is based on city of Lakewood numbers as
the comparison is coming out of City Hall.

.

[Michael Loje]

Getting back to my original question, what do you think of large scale junk retail development on Berea Road?

[Missy Limkemann]

I have a perfect idea for that building, a DREAM actually. Just no money to do it and I don't know if anyone would share in my dream to make it happen. But it would be awesome!!!!

[Stan Austin]

A hotel for homeless dogs

[Bryan Schwegler]

I think there's something historic about those buildings. We need to keep them, if we tear them down it will irreparably destroy the walkable nature of Lakewood.

[Will Brown]

I suspect that property is zoned industrial, and historically commercial establishments avoid industrial property. Just offhand, the commercial uses of industrial property are often bars that serve the workers coming off shift (or on shift in some cases) I know there are a few commercial establishments on Berea road, but I still think that is an exception.

I know the successful commercial chains gather a lot of information before selecting a site, which makes me think if their was any potential in that area, someone would have exploited it. It is not a convenient location: I go to the refuse department on occasion, but only because it is there. My wife goes to Pat Cattans as they are the only nearby source of art supplies. I don't shop at Home Depot, nor do I buy rubber equipment, so that poorly paved busy street rarely sees me. I don't think it even has bus service.

[Michael Loje]

Will, just about all the businesses there are light industrial and wholesale/warehouse. Upgrading to retail is easier than doing vice-versa. Probably the heaviest manufacturing there would be Vedda Printing. And the access to I-90 and Target and Giant Eagle would help. If bus service were warranted, it probably will be there.