The Observation Deck

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/17/ac ... latestnews

The ACLU of New Jersey threatened legal action against the Neptune school district after an attendee at last year’s graduation ceremony took offense

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/17/ac ... z1MejElGVv

For generations, graduates of Neptune High School have walked down the aisle of the Great Auditorium in Ocean Grove, where the impressive 6,500-seat venue dominates the landscape of one of the area’s most historic beach towns. Built in 1894, the auditorium is owned and operated by the Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association, a Methodist group that owns not just the building, but all of the land beneath every home and structure in town.

The Great Auditorium, a nationally recognized landmark, is steeped in history. The building has hosted Ulysses S. Grant and six other U.S. presidents, as well as 27 of New Jersey’s governors. Mark Twain was a member of the auditorium’s board of directors, and religious leaders like the Rev. Billy Graham have spoken there.
The auditorium also functions as a concert venue for many secular events and has hosted acts as varied as the Beach Boys, Frank Sinatra Jr., and Peter, Paul and Mary.

Does this sound insane to anyone else? One kid to ruin it for everyone? If they are offended just go to another city. No one is forcing people to live where they do. I am so sick of the minority trying to push their beliefs on the majority. It only works from left to right.

I'm sure it has little or nothing to actually do with the kid at this point. Its about using a complaint to push an intolerant, anti-religious agenda. Some on the left believe we have freedom from religion instead of freedom of religion.

There is another aspect to this I think should be mentioned. Some on the left (not mutually exclusive or inclusive to the subset mentioned above) claim to be bastions of diversity and tolerance in the community, until such time as someone disagrees and they begin to attack and vilify that person.
A tolerant person would say to him or herself, "I may not like that cross, but I should respect the values of the people who worship here."
A diverse person would understand that, yes, "There are people in the world who think and act differently from me. I should celebrate their differences, not force them to conform to my standards."
But that's not what happens. Instead, we see that "There is no right or wrong, just my way or the highway."

As for why the left is able to bully the right, its because often its the only think they can do. Many of the ideas of the left are impractical and cannot be defended intellectually. I sense this is why the most common words I've seen written by Sharon Kinsella are "Shut up." Since they cannot defeat the idea, they attack the messenger.

Ryan Salo wrote:. It only works from left to right.

Wow, you almost had my support here all the way up until you made this baseless, false, and utterly incorrect statement.

Bryan,
I am open to hearing you out. Please let me know where you believe the minority right are pushing the left? I may be wrong, which happens. I just cant think of any issues besides abortions and gay marriage that you may bring up. Both of those issues are close to 50/50 nation wide. I was refering more to local issues raising the victim card. I dont see on the news where right wingers are claiming their feelings were hurt somewhere and to force the left to change. I may be wrong though. I hope you can respond when you get a chance.
Ryan

Just a few conservative cases the ACLU has handled because believe it or not they help anyone not just libs.

The ACLU of Virginia (2011) defended the free religious expression of a group of Christian athletes in Floyd County High School who had copies of the Ten Commandments removed from their personal lockers.
http://www2.wsls.com/news/2011/feb/25/a ... d-co-hig...

The ACLU, its national chapter in Puerto Rico, and its affiliates in New Hampshire, Maine, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island (2010) filed a friend-of-the-court brief opposing restrictive laws that effectively ban Jehovah’s Witnesses from freely expressing their faith on the streets of Puerto Rico. The brief supports a challenge by the Witnesses to Puerto Rico statutes authorizing local neighborhoods to deny citizens access to public residential streets.
http://www.aclu.org/religion-belief/acl ... ovahs-wi...

(You might like this one)
The ACLU of Florida (2009) filed a lawsuit on behalf of two families from the Dove World Outreach Center, defending their constitutional right to express themselves in public school with t-shirts stating, “Islam is of the devil.” The suit claims that the school has been inconsistent in enforcing restrictions on free speech.
http://www.gainesville.com/article/2009 ... 118?Titl...

The ACLU of Louisiana (2009) argued for the right of Christian preachers to distribute pamphlets at the Breaux Bridge Crawfish Festival. The ACLU wrote a letter to the mayor in support of the preachers, who had been ordered to stop handing out religious material.
http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom ... thetownt...

The ACLU of Michigan (2008) filed a successful lawsuit on behalf of a Benton Harbor minister who was sentenced to 3 to 10 years in prison for writing an article both criticizing the judge and predicting what God might do to the judge who presided over his case – actions protected by the constitutional guarantees of freedom of speech and religious expression.
http://aclumich.org/issues/free-speech/2009-07/1383

The ACLU of Louisiana (2008) filed a brief in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit supporting an individual’s right to quote Bible verses on public streets in Zachary, Louisiana.
http://www.laaclu.org/News/2008/Netherl ... 60408.html

The ACLU of Eastern Missouri (2008) sued the City of Poplar Bluff after the City’s public library disciplined a part-time employee who objected to participating in the promotion of a Harry Potter book. The employee, a devout Southern Baptist, had religious objections to the promotion, which she believed encouraged children to worship the occult. The lawsuit argued that the city violated federal law by refusing to accommodate her sincerely held religious beliefs.
http://www.aclu-em.org/legal/legaldocke ... asetal.htm

I would continue but there are a lot more of these cases and these are just the freedom of religion ones dealing with Christianity. Many Christians turn to the ACLU when their constitutional rights are violated because the ACLU has a history of helping people regardless of who they are if their rights are violated. I encourage you to go to the website and read about the cases which they have worked on. Here is a link to where I got the above information http://www.aclu.org/aclu-defense-religi ... expression and there is a ton more information on the site.

Ryan Salo wrote:I dont see on the news where right wingers are claiming their feelings were hurt somewhere and to force the left to change.

You are correct, the "Right" doesn't claim their feelings were hurt. Instead, they force their brand of minority control on the nation in the cloak of religion and "Biblical" principles that have no place defining law in a secular country. Especially when such radical "Biblical" principles are only believed by a minority of Christians in this country anyway (most Catholics and mainline Protestants which are a majority of the country don't agree with the vocal Evangelicals on many radical issues).

So yes, there's your minority right-wing just as much as a minority left-wing. Both sides are just as guilty. But ultimately Ryan, our country is founded on the principle that the majority should not be able to exercise tyranny over the minority. If the majority wanted to force all blonde people to make no more than minimum wage, should they be allowed? What if the majority was Muslim and wanted to force you to read the Koran every morning and pray to Allah before class, should they be allowed?

It's interesting that when your minority position is threatened, you claim some kind of tyranny, but see no issue forcing your minority position on others when you have the ability to do so.

Danielle,
I appreciate the info but i see a difference between defending someone who has been wrongly stopped or punished and the aclu trying to punish everyone else for an individuals feelings. Do you see my point? If the kid that was offended wanted to skip the evnt or protest it and was punished i think the aclu should defend his/her rights, but to try to change everything for one person is insane. That is like me moving to china town in nyc and geting the aclu to force companies to only speak english because i am uncomfortable or offended. I guess in my view if you dont like what the majority of people believe in your area, either do grassroot efforts to change it or leave.

I agree with you on this case Ryan, I was merely challenging your notion that the ACLU only protects the rights of those on the left.

Danielle,

I didn't mean to say the ACLU only protects the leftists what I was saying is that it appears that they only try to change culture when the left is offended.

Bryan,

Your rant didn't give me any examples, just anger and hurt, care to try again? I am open to hearing how the beliefs of the minority are forced upon the majority favoring conservative ideas and "feelings". When I say minority i mean similar to this case where it is 1 vs 3500+, not 60%/40% or 50%/50%.

Ryan Salo wrote:Bryan,

Your rant didn't give me any examples, just anger and hurt, care to try again? I am open to hearing how the beliefs of the minority are forced upon the majority favoring conservative ideas and "feelings". When I say minority i mean similar to this case where it is 1 vs 3500+, not 60%/40% or 50%/50%.

Actually it wasn't a rant, it was a factual account and it wasn't even angry. Care to re-read it without your own negative prejudice again?

So let's try this again since you conveniently ignored my actual philosophical question to you about how much of a right does the majority have to dictate to the minority.

If the majority wanted to force all blonde people to make no more than minimum wage, should they be allowed? What if the majority was Muslim and wanted to force you to read the Koran every morning and pray to Allah before class, should they be allowed?

Bryan,

I agree that majority rule has to have guidelines. Where you draw the line depends on your beliefs in good and evil, right or wrong and individual rights. Thankfully we were founded on individual human rights so we have strict laws in place to protect individuals from harm.

This protection used to be simply based on physical harm but now the liberals are slowly trying to make it go as far as emotional harm which is very dangerous depending on who is in power and determining "harm". The thinner the liberal's skin gets the more protection they want. Heck you don't even want kids to feel like "losers" in sports so lets not keep score.

No wonder so many woman in marriages have to "wear the pants", men in this county are becoming bigger and bigger wusses.

Back to your points, you questioned the left to right comment I made but you have not provided any examples to prove that I was wrong. Please let me know when the ACLU or any group fought for the "rights" of a single or small group of conservatives to force change on the majority because of feelings.

Liberals have it happen all the time. "I am offended" must be integrated into that liberal "smarter" brain, that you are born with. Conservatives in general realize people can all think different and don't cry to mommy/government/aclu to change the rules of the game for everyone else so we can feel better.

Ryan Salo wrote:BConservatives in general realize people can all think different and don't cry to mommy/government/aclu to change the rules of the game for everyone else so we can feel better.

You mean like passing Gay Marriage Amendments to enforce Christian cultural values? That certainly isn't running to government/mommy to make them feel better/safer. I mean that's certainly a symbol of respecting that people have different views and respecting their choices right?

Ultimately, it won't matter. The world is ending May 21:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/1 ... ck/?hpt=C1

The ACLU of New Jersey threatened legal action against the Neptune school district after an attendee at last year’s graduation ceremony took offense

I think the attendee who took offense needs to go see the sarge..

the ACLU is not a government organization or exclusively affiliated with any political entity.

they are free to try to sue anyone they want. any judge or jury or magistrate is free to throw out the case or decide against them.

ryan costa wrote:the ACLU is not a government organization or exclusively affiliated with any political entity.

they are free to try to sue anyone they want. any judge or jury or magistrate is free to throw out the case or decide against them.

I wonder how many members had a Bush or McCain bumper sticker compared to Obama or Kerry.. LOL Ryan... spin away..