The Observation Deck

Ken Wilder wrote:This morning I ran down Edgewater and the divide makes no sense at all except for 7 very large homes and their occupants who obviously paid someone off to change the straightline to allow their children to go to Lincoln!!!

Pupet Master of LakewoodAlive and head of 50-Year-Committee, was chosen to speak to
Phase III, and diminutive regionalist. Two other LA Board members, and...

FWIW


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Oh really, how very interesting.

Sharon will now proceed to make note of that one.

They, of course, don't need to worry, since I'm simply a liberal, working class woman and they are the gifted. I'm of no threat to such elevated personages.

this thread is a decent example of why I have generally stayed away... not a very civil debate imho. Does the fact that I'm a Democrat/liberal really have anything to do one way or the other with the value of my opinion to keep Lincoln open (or Grant, for that matter, if that was my take)? Does my working stiff status give me more street cred in this discussion? (it shouldn't) Does my living paycheck to paycheck gives my sentiments additional weight (even if I'm rooting for Lincoln??) Classism?? Really? Someone ought to tell all the folks in the doubles on my street... not to mention all the families without cars. Or the doubles on adjacent streets, or along Clifton, etc. And why in the world wouldn't costs (value of property, etc.) not be an important consideration... money is the whole reason for the need to discuss this after all (and I haven't followed the math on this one so I don't know what the "experts" say would be most cost-conscious, but I can't believe that anyone wouldn't consider it one of the more important issues). seem to be more than a few numbers tossed around that people are treating as facts for which there are questions too. the facts that Lincoln is maxed out for open enrollment and rated excellent seem too casually dismissed for wanting the best for the kids too. oh well, sadly whether or not your name is attached to your comments, it doesn't seem to get rid of the name calling and vitriol... lots of nasty comments here that wouldn't appear to have anything to do with the topic directly

Just for the record Grant is rated excellent also, so we are comparing apples to apples in that. Grant and Lincoln are the only two elementary schools rated excellent. Grant is also the only public elementary school in Lakewood that is a Blue Ribbon School, something that makes me as not only a Grant parent but also as a Lakewood resident proud.

As for open enrollment, I applied one year for open enrollment to Grant so that all my kids could go there as my oldest was accepted into the gifted program. It was years ago when my oldest was in 2nd grade. I had a kindergartner and a preschooler and two babies at home and only had a car two days a week but I was denied even though only 250 students were at Grant that year. I have known personally three other families in the gifted program at Grant that were denied open enrollment for their younger children. All of those younger children went to Grant once they got into the gifted program. My kids got into Grant when we moved into a rental closer to Grant so all our children could go to the same school. I have no problem with open enrollment especially when one child in a family is at a school for a special program but there are currently only 17 children in the gifted program at Lincoln whose home school is not Lincoln. I just have to question the behind the scene motives when families moving into the Grant area have been told as far as three years back not to enroll there kids at Grant because a)the class sizes are too big and b)it will be closing soon.

Also when we have crowded classrooms and students in the 2/3 gifted program being taught in a resource room when we have modulars sitting vacant in our parking lot. We have used them for the past 4 years but this year they crowd us into the school at let them sit idle. What a shame, a shame that the kids and the teachers are suffering.

Once again I am all for an open and honest discussion of the facts but there is so much fishy stuff going on and so many facts were left out of the community discussion that really I don't believe there is any transparency or real desire to serve all the communities children.

Oops I can't edit. I made a mistake. I attempted to open enroll when my son was in 3rd grade. You don't find out until too late in the summer which school your child will go to when they get into the gifted program, we had requested Grant but didn't find out until two weeks before school started, so we went a year in two schools. This was 5 years ago but I believe it is still the same. The next year I had a 1st grader and a kindergartner, long story short they tried to send us to three elementary schools, UGH but kindly only made us go to two. At that point Grant only had about 250 students, no where near maxed out. Anyhow open enrollment isn't automatic, many families have struggled when they have been denied but we made it work because I was so impressed by Grant, so much so that we moved into the area. I know Lincoln is a great school, I won't deny that but so is Grant. Unfortunately I hear too often that it is ugly which is sad because sure it's a little different since it's "newer" but it is an amazing place doing an amazing job teaching students who are nearly 60% economically challenged. Sorry to be tooting it's horn but trust me the negativity I hear in the community about Grant saddens me, at my table for the community forum the people were shocked that I would send my kids there, so I will say positive things about Grant whenever I can.

Jeff have your followed this whole thread and everything that has gone in the last year with the group I am referencing? If not you do not know why I made that crack.

Please don't rush to judge something you don't know the history of.

Your ideas and input are valid, as are mine, just different ideas behind each. There are a lot of people in this town that would look down on you because you live paycheck to paycheck because their motivations are based on greed, like in the rest of society. It's all gotten laid out with this issue.

If you'd like to meet with me or Dannielle to find out why we think the way we do, or for that matter almost anyone else who puzzles you on the deck, most of us would be happy to find some time for coffee.

Jeff Dreger wrote:this thread is a decent example of why I have generally stayed away... not a very civil debate imho...

Jeff

Let me explain why the Lakewood Observer was constructed, especially The Deck. There
was a time in this city when the discussions were really nasty, cruel,and quite honestly
completely filled with lies, untruths and misrepresentations. It was these discussions that
pointed the way to not just the founders of the Lakewood Observer, but also certainly the
first 100 members who believed the only way to stop not just the vitriol, but even more
importantly at the time, the lies, the mistruths, and the very nasty backroom dealings
of ideas and plans that would have NEVER stood for one minute in the light of day, was
to create a project that not only insisted on real names, but looked at other ways for the
ideas and views of a city to be broadcast to everyone for FREE. That through open discussion
and ownership of words and ideas a city, and the democratic rules of this city would have
a better chance to serve, and educate, while discussing all ideas, thoughts and emotions.

This would not have even been necessary had some very powerful people at the time
not lied and misrepresented their plans and efforts to the residents and businesses
of this community. Again the hope was, invite all into a common ground and at least
there would be a chance to serve a community, not just a select few that either had
power, and/or a phone number and connection to the powerful. That a resident, business,
even school kid could weigh in with their thoughts, ideas and hopefully make ideas and
plans better, and stop the cancer that had divided the city at the time which was a
secret agenda that pitted class against class and preyed on those with no connections.

Simply put EVERYONE had/has one equal seat at a table large enough and strong enough
to fit everyone and serve everyone. In other words a virtual democracy.*

I would ask you to look at the names of the first 100, and those that are still in this city
ask where their ideals and dreams went? I would answer it was not the vitriol and rough
comments that sometimes appear, but that many of their ideas either DO NOT HOLD WATER,
or SERVE SUCH A SMALL GROUP OF SO CALLED POWER BROKERS that they are embarrassed
to even walk into a public discussion they cannot control and grab the talking stick.

Right now we have four pretty serious things going on in this city that desperately need
public debate and full disclosure, but the merchants of these ideas are afraid to stand
in the light and even whisper their plans.
1) Election/Future
2) Safety
3) Schools
4) Housing/Development

As underlined here, a few have been told, "just keep quite say nothing, do not answer
questions and NEVER go to a public forum, and our machine will deliver the votes."
This is not the way Americans would like to pick public officials, but in this city it is
a proven way to win, if all you care about is WIN AT ALL COSTS.

I have to agree it can get a little rough here, but not as rough as other places. After all
I myself and my board have been the target thousands of times, and every time I and
my board have learned, and moved on. Some of the civic leaders that signed on from
day one left not because they were called "pimps of progress" or worse.They left because
for some ungodly reason they could not answer what they did with money, votes, plans,
ideas, etc. These are honest and legitimate questions by people that end up paying the
bill at check out time.

There is massive difference between "civic discourse" what the Observer was built for
and "civil discourse." While one would hope not, the fact is when the discussion changes
from what color to paint a wall, to what school to close, to turning residential into strip
malls, it gets a little more charged, and potentially rougher. So be it, as adults we know,
stick and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt us, or more importantly,
CONSIDER THE SOURCE.(why we use real names)

Finally what always brings a smile to my face is a post like yours,which is actually an
attack against some who post. As you say "In My Honest Opinion..." which is good enough
for me, and should be good enough for all that do not FEAR the public discussion of their
ideas, plans, platforms and projects. Because all that we ask of all that contribute is
that they are willing to take ownership of their ideas, views and HONEST OPINIONS.

SO ALL OF US SHOULD ASK WHAT THE REST ARE HIDING THAT THEY FEAR STEPPING
INTO THE LIGHT AND SHARING THEIR THOUGHTS WITH THE CITY, OR ESPECIALLY THOSE
WILLING TO OWN THEIR COMMENTS EVEN WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING WRONG.

Jeff, thanks for the post, thanks for taking part your comments and thoughts have given
us all food for thought. All of us respect you for taking the time, together hopefully we
make the city, and the discussion better for ALL.

* This is why you do not have to register to read or use the website. You only need
to register if you comment. The Lakewood Observer does not share names and/or
information with anyone else. We do not abuse your mailbox with endless "blasts"
about what award we just gave ourselves, who said what, or taking credit for things
we had nothing to do with. WE RESPECT YOUR TIME AND PERSONAL INFORMATION.

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From the Lakewood City Schools website;

Special Board of Education Mtg-Moved to GRANT GYM
11/16/09 - 7:15 PM

BOARD TO HOLD SPECIAL SESSION ON PHASE III
The Board of Education announced at its Nov. 2 meeting that it is changing its Nov. 16 meeting time to 6 p.m. in order to accommodate a public work session to be held at 7:15 p.m. The special session, which will be held in the Grant Elementary gym, will focus on the report submitted by the Phase III Steering Committee and will allow the Board to dig deeper and learn more about the information compiled. There will be no public communications during this session, however, opportunities for public comment on the issue will be offered before the Board makes its decision.

Grant is located at 1470 Victoria Avenue, car access off Elmwood between Detroit and Hilliard.

Early reports from tonight's meeting...

The CSU expert hired by Superintendent Joe Madak to review
all of the data from the committee chooses...

"...Plan B for Lakeview."

Huh?


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I sat through the November 16th board work session regarding Phase III. Nearly the entire meeting was used by the board members to report on different aspects of the Phase III committee reports with the obvious goal to affirm the popular vote taken at the September 15th "community" forum. Great lengths where taken to debunk the criticism's of the event and it processes. However Mr. Markling did state that the popular vote did not hold sway in his option.

The only new information came from an architect who presented new land-use and basic evaluations of the two sites. He was never directly asked if one site was favorable over the other but his posted matrix seemed to indicate the Grant location had more "good" features. There was no new data regarding student density, current, historic or projected only attempts to discredit what little data is present. There was no factual information regarding the marketability or real estate value of either site, but they did reaffirm the assumption that the Grant site would more valuable. The other outside presenter the consultant form CSU commended the boards process and concurred with the September 15th results that "Lakeview" should go with plan B (Lincoln).

The board members got a few steps closer to achieving their pre-determined outcome. It is well known that Lincoln is "untouchable" it was in the 50 year committee report and it is today. I'm sure Mr. Markling will stick with his statement that no decision has been made statement, at least until the unanimous board vote.

The one aspect that none of the board members will discuss publicly is the political realities. Any adequate politician can count votes and the votes and support they will need to pass the pending levies and bond issues will come from their constituents within the Lincoln community. It is far less likely to come from the lower-income, minority and immigrant families that will be forced to walk further and/or attend class in what will be the more crowded classrooms of the elementary schools south of the tracks.

Bill

Bill Trentel wrote:The one aspect that none of the board members will discuss publicly is the political realities. Any adequate politician can count votes and the votes and support they will need to pass the pending levies and bond issues will come from their constituents within the Lincoln community. It is far less likely to come from the lower-income, minority and immigrant families that will be forced to walk further and/or attend class in what will be the more crowded classrooms of the elementary schools south of the tracks.

Bill

I think it is important to realize that Gieger and company left the school system a financial mess. Eight years ago they were sitting on $60 million in surpluses. Rather than reserve that money they allowed the teachers unions to loot the treasury. 8% annual raises, $100,000 secret buy outs and more. The system will need a fantastic 20 mils to balance the budget and then more later on.

Keep in mind that if a school has to close then someone's child is going to have to walk farther. That is true if you close Grant and it is true if you close Lincoln.

An alternate solution is to keep all three schools open and hope that enrollment stabilizes or increases. If enrollment declines as predicted that would be financially irresponsible.

Is it prudent to gamble $20 million on a hope?

Is it prudent to engage in class warfare to get what you want?

The Geiger school board did great damage to the school system. I think repairing the damage will be nearly impossible. If the argument over schools degenerates into a class conflict the damage WILL be impossible to repair.

I am still hopeful that the Board will carefully consider the Phase III Report, further investigate the options and adequately justify their decision. They will need everyone's support to pass the pending levies and bond issues and should not underestimate their constituents throughout the city.

At last night's meeting I was most impressed with the architect's more thorough evaluation of the sites and the way in which Mr. Markling neutralized and summarized forum results, focusing on "academic excellence" and "fiscal accountability."

Most concerning was discussion regarding the district's more limited resources with the decline of property values, uncertainty regarding state money and the need to explore "alternative" funding to complete Phase III.

Bill--- you have presented three or four arguments that are disconnected, are conjecture, and have no basis in reality.
But, on a different topic, if I drift into Sullivan's, will you put the beer on your tab so's we can discuss, hehe?
Stan

Bill Call wrote:Is it prudent to engage in class warfare to get what you want?

Bill

"They" hate it when you put it that way!

I think it has become painfully obvious what is going on.

If only there was a smoking gun


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Bill--- you have presented three or four arguments that are disconnected, are conjecture, and have no basis in reality.
But, on a different topic, if I drift into Sullivan's, will you put the beer on your tab so's we can discuss, hehe?
Stan

Mr. Austin,

I believe you quoted Bill Call and not Bill Trentel, either way, I would say there is real truth to the "four arguments" that you commented on. I know that because I served on the Phase III Committee and on the Coordinating Council. I don't know much about Geinger's tenure, but there are many who believe that there is a class war between Lincoln and Grant. It was clear from the start of the process that the Lincoln site was not very viable and that Grant was a far better site. Last night that information was finally presented in a pubic way--which should have been presented in the presentation at the 2nd Community Forum, but was deliberately withheld. Many at Grant parents never bothered becoming involved in Phase III because they assumed that Grant wouldn't have a chance against Lincoln due to its geography. And many, felt disengaged because unlike the first Phases there was no reaching out to our non-speaking citizens. Something I regret happened. The bottom line is that there was just not enough people serving on Phase III that could rise above the notion of saving their own school and looking at the broader community for the next 50 years. Not enough people could get past the Us vs Them mentality and so we were gridlocked. Unfortunately, I do see a fight brewing on the horizon that I feel could be worse than the Franklin closing.

Make no mistake, our school district's financial future is uncertain. All you need to do is check out the 5 Year Forecast presented to the BOE. We were told at the meeting last night that alternative funding will have to be found to fund Phase III. It was explained to us last night that every attempt will be made; however, it is not going to be as simple as a plan that was originally presented to the community. The bottom line is a school WILL close. After attending last night's meeting this is clear (unless of course the State changes its mind again). And, with a school closing kids WILL walk further overall with more kids affected who live in the central part of the city.

If the process was completely fair, unbiased, and successful the Phase III Committee would have made a recommendation. However, we knew there were very few in the process who had the best interest of the community as a whole in their hearts. The right thing to do was not to make a recommendation. We are all counting on BOE members to make a good choice that is right for the community. I was disappointed that one of the experts who presented to the BOE didn't seem to understand Lakewood very well at all. If fact, he kept referring to our community as Lakeview. He based his entire recommendation on zoning issues (keep in mind we have many schools vacant) and the fact that Lakewood's private school could close at anytime and then Lincoln would be needed. Please if anyone from LCA knows about their school closing we would love to know. Of course, the "expert" is assuming that all kids who attend LCA live in the Lincoln area---I hope additional experts the BOE interviews understand our unique city better, understand our citizens, and know the name of the city they are standing in. Really, this is the future of our city and schools. Maybe a little research and a less casual recommendation wouldn't be too much to ask.

Kristine