The Observation Deck

Dee Martinez wrote:I will only ask, who in CITY government is considering this a serious idea?

Dee

Your post just begs for questions.

If this really derails the entire process, wasn't the process started way to late to have any real impact?

It seems to me that the committee was meeting until September, so why would it even be a problem?

Ego?


.

Dee Martinez wrote:The plan has been on the table for 7 years. I believe the process has been open and transparent.

If the plan has been in place for 7 years then all of the public meetings and discussion groups are just dog and pony shows.

You may be right and this might be a bridge to far. However, if the City is willing to exchange one property for another the entire process can be completed in about one day.

At that point we would need to determine the foot print of the new school and ask for design ideas. All of that can be done independently of the high school construction. Since the $47 million will be dispersed as construction progresses taking time to design and build at Kaufman Park will have no affect on high school construction nor will it jeopardize any part of the State financing..

The added benefit of the Kaufman site is that no school need to be closed while construction is progressing.

If the decision is made to close either Lincoln or Grant the better idea is to build at Kaufman. Eliminating one school saves about $600,00 in operating costs per year.

A school at Kaufman that improves and expands Kuafman Park is a win for the City, the schools and the community. I'm not sure whose ego comes out on top but I'm guessing that that is less an issue than you might think.

I'm a bit confused as to what plan has been on the table for the past 7 years. The plan has changed through the years as the demographics have changed. That is the beauty of this system, things changes, people move, and what may have been appropriate 7 years ago for the schools is not necessarily appropriate today. Look back at the original 50 year plan, it called for 7 elementary schools.

I think what was originally suggested was acquiring Taco Bell, the church next door, plus the landswap with the City to gain the remaining ground. I know, Taco Bell is just too expensive. Eminent domain is the answer if a private solution cannot be negotiated. The Board needs to move away from its "no eminent domain" position. It wrongly clutches that stance in the wake of the West End. These are totally different scenarios and should be recognized as such. I also think Mr. Favre is misguided in thinking it would be wrong for the Board to simply consider an idea without consulting the City. That kind of attitude hampers possibilities and progress. This solution meets the walking radius for students, could meet the footprint requirement, and maintains community use of the space. Do not forget, a big selling point that the Board has used is that these buildings are to be used as "community spaces." So Chris and Will, the space can be saved and probably even improved.

In addition, the City had difficulty patrolling and maintaining order at Kaufmann Park. I was witness to these events as Ward 2 Councilman. A possible reorganization of the land and facilities could benefit both entities. And Dee, we really aren't on a timeline because NO STATE MONEY HAS BEEN GUARANTEED as of the last community meeting. I repeat, "NO STATE MONEY HAS BEEN GUARANTEED." So we may have to fork it all over. Danielle, also keep in mind that the schools need a levy. The true question is what can Lakewood afford in the next three years? I think the approach to this plan will need a redesign due to unforeseen economic circumstances. Nobody's fault, just the way it is.

Ryan Patrick Demro wrote:I think what was originally suggested was acquiring Taco Bell, the church next door, plus the landswap with the City to gain the remaining ground. I know, Taco Bell is just too expensive. Eminent domain is the answer if a private solution cannot be negotiated.

Usually when schools close the community loses something. A school at Kaufman Park offers the opportunity for the community to gain something. Instead of a sense of loss there can be a sense of excitement and renewal.

Emminent domain should be used to acquire the property need to expand the footprint of the new Ronald Reagan Elementary School. Just to be fair Kaufman Park should be renamed the Carter Field.

The question I have is this: Do those chosen to be on the committee have the power to choose or just the power to rubber stamp?

Ronald REAGAN????????????

Well, I suppose that would be a valid name choice.....but given Lakewood's political demographics.....that selection might go through an interesting approval process.

Many are unaware that a third middle school was planned, but never built right across the street from Lakewood High on Bunts, where those temporary classrooms presently operate.

I seem to recall that it was supposed to be the George Washington School.

School districts historically are always in a process of flux and renewal.

Decisions concerning buildings are based on everything from enrollment number projections, to politics, to safety issues.

Whenever possible, I always like the idea of new schools. Over the long term, they can give an economic boost to a community in intangible ways.

For clarification, that third middle school that I wrote about (above) was planned before WWII. It was NOT a recent discussion.

For further clarification, (and for those who think that I can't count )

That pre-war middle school proposed would heve been the 4th middle school in Lakewood at that time.

If done today, it would be the third.

I can count.

Honest....

Ryan Patrick Demro wrote:I also think Mr. Favre is misguided in thinking it would be wrong for the Board to simply consider an idea without consulting the City. That kind of attitude hampers possibilities and progress.

Ryan,

I will not speak for Board President Ed Favre, but I do not recall Ed making such a statement. In any event, I understand that the Phase III Steering Committee is considering all options with the City and all other relevant parties.

Matt

Bill Call wrote:The question I have is this: Do those chosen to be on the committee have the power to choose or just the power to rubber stamp?

Bill,

One of the benefits of the Observation Deck is that it provides a historic record. The Board did not "choose" anyone to be on the Phase III Steering Committee. Any Lakewoodite who wanted to be a member, was made a member. See http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7585.

In fact, there was even discussion on the Deck about the fact that everyone who wanted to participate in the process was included:

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Isn't 130 person steering committee a bit large?

http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7585

There is nothing before the Phase III Steering Committee to "rubber stamp." That assumes that the Board has made a decision, which it has not - contrary to what our pals may suggest.

The Phase III Steering Committee will make a recommendation to the Board. The Board will then make a decision.

Matt

All right, if were gong to considier everyones idea, what about MINE?
Close Lincoln, raze the current Grant, BOE and Rec Dept building and put an 800-student elementary school at Warren & Detroit. Move the BOE operation to Franklin.
Tell me how that is any less workable than the Kaufman Park thing.
Lincoln kids will still have to trek a mile or more to school, youll still get your great new school, and you wont have to mess around with the city.

Whats not to like here?

And to Danielle whats been on the table for 7 years is a process that involved 3 phases. None of it involved any "land swaps" with the city or building schools on property that didnt involve schools.
Ive been to many of these. If moving 387 (do I have that figure right?) kids from Lincoln up to Drug Mart was on the table in 2002 there would have been a lot more push-back.

How have the demographics shifted? The Lincoln neighborhood is one of the most stable in the city. I know some people resent the fact because Lincoln is perceived to be an affluent district (kids living over storefronts?) but I can tell you it is not. Drive the Lincoln neighborhood, it is pretty diverse. It just hasnt CHANGED much. So for that, the neighborhood gets punished by losing its school?

Dee Martinez wrote:All right, if were gong to considier everyones idea, what about MINE?
Close Lincoln, raze the current Grant, BOE and Rec Dept building and put an 800-student elementary school at Warren & Detroit. Move the BOE operation to Franklin.
Tell me how that is any less workable than the Kaufman Park thing.
Lincoln kids will still have to trek a mile or more to school, youll still get your great new school, and you wont have to mess around with the city.

Whats not to like here?

Dee,

Consider calling the Phase III Hotline at 1-216-227-5315 or contacting a Phase III Steering Committee Member directly (or via PM, e-mail, and the like), and share your ideas:

Matthew John Markling wrote:

Betsy Voinovich wrote:I'm on the Phase III Steering Committee ....

I don't want people to get the idea that we aren't STILL SOLICITING IDEAS from the community at large. If you were at the Community Forum, you saw that the last page of the survey everyone was asked to fill out was a blank page asking for each person's individual ideas and suggestions.

We will be looking at all of these .... carefully, at our next meeting when we go over all of the survey results.

There are many in the community ... who would have liked to be on the Steering Committee but can't make the time commitment. That doesn't mean that ideas that members of the community have aren't important to us. That's why we had the first meeting and why we'll have another one in September, if not earlier. THIS IS THE TIME to bring your ideas to the Steering Committee. We meet every two weeks, for two hours. We want to get this right. If you have a good idea, SUBMIT IT TO THE STEERING COMMITTEE. We want to represent ALL of Lakewood. That's the whole point of this thing.

Well said.

Phase III Steering Committee Members, like Betsy, have decided to put their personal agendas aside for the best of the Lakewood City Schools.

If you cannot attend a community meeting, please call the Phase III Hotline at 1-216-227-5315.

As Betsy knows, this is not a process run by the Board. Rather, it is a process run by the Community and Phase III Steering Committee Members. So ... you can also PM people like Betsy, and I am sure that Betsy and others will immediately forward the information to Phase III Steering Committee itself.

Matt

Dee Martinez wrote:How have the demographics shifted?

Dee,

I believe that this is data that the Phase III Steering Committee is looking into.

Matt

To Mr Markling

If the state will only fund 2 of 3 schools what is the immediate imperative to do ANYTHING about Grant right now? Ive been there plenty of times, one of my kids went there and not that long ago. Unlike the schools from the 20s it is not falling apart. We got 100 years or more out of Garfield and Harrison. Grant isnt very pretty but its a fairly modern building. It doesnt need the extensive work Horace Mann or Emerson did.

Why not do a major remodel on Lincoln and Roosevelt with the state money and put major improvement on Grant off for another day, or do more modest improvements with a local-only issue?