The Observation Deck

Well said Mike. Let's not forget, this isn't a court of law, it's a court of public opinion. If Shawn would've filed a police report, it would have gone a long way to support his innocence. Instead we receive subterfuge.

Mr Davis, who purportedly received and possesses the email, said he had gone to the police. So who has actually seen the entire email? Where's the beef? Why do we even care what conclusions some hysterical people are drawing?

i've been gone a week and i see that most of you are still licking your lips at the thought of juris being crucified. and now to sweeten the vengeful pot, summers name is being thrown in as if he's in cahoots?

do you not all have better things to do than grab pitchforks and torches?

if you have a problem with juris, don't vote for him. or better yet run against him. so effin simple.

btw, nice that you provided his contact information in that report. im sure several of you are pranking his home phone already or plotting to t.p. his house as clearly this issue has caused a tizzy of epic proportions.

kate e parker wrote:i've been gone a week and i see that most of you are still licking your lips at the thought of juris being crucified. and now to sweeten the vengeful pot, summers name is being thrown in as if he's in cahoots?

do you not all have better things to do than grab pitchforks and torches?

if you have a problem with juris, don't vote for him. or better yet run against him. so effin simple.

btw, nice that you provided his contact information in that report. im sure several of you are pranking his home phone already or plotting to t.p. his house as clearly this issue has caused a tizzy of epic proportions.

Kate you'll soon figure out the more you read threads on this forum....that's what the "regular observers" love to do. Not sure if their just bored or retired or what, but they definitely prefer opinion and conjecture over facts.

J Hrlec wrote:Kate you'll soon figure out the more you read threads on this forum....that's what the "regular observers" love to do. Not sure if their just bored or retired or what, but they definitely prefer opinion and conjecture over facts.

don't let my post count fool you, i've been on this forum since 2005 and have seen as well as have been in some ridiculous threads (my old name 'kate parker' was cut off from here a few years back).

not only have i had a few things published in the observer i have even mixed it up with ken warren and obryan a few times. (obryan, the most memorable being at mahall's one nite. i believe we not only raised a few glasses but voices as well, haha).

you hit the nail on the head, hrlec...conjecture over facts.

Shawn said he was going to make a police report. He lied. FACT.

He merely asked for something to be written down to the effect that his email account MAY have been hacked. No request for an investigation, which is quite telling since it involves his business account.

So the FACTS are that Shawn LIED about making a police report and an investigation being underway.

The conjecture can then be made that Shawn DID NOT WANT the police investigating. Why? Let me guess? Because he KNEW there was no hacking and filing an official police report that was false would be a crime.

kate e parker wrote:you hit the nail on the head, hrlec...conjecture over facts.

When real wrongdoing of some kind seems evident, and any attempt to gather facts are scuttled by statements that "things are being taken care of" when they are obviously not, what do you propose? Council people shouldn't threaten the local press. Hackers shouldn't impersonate government officials to threaten the local press. When people inquire of the facts, they are told more untruths.

Most of what I read on the deck is evidence that people actively care about where they live and how they live, and don't see questioning what’s happening and wanting things to be done right as an "election time" activity. They don't need to agree, and obviously they don't. A member of a community can and should do more than "voting" people in and out of office, like a civic tithe. Most people here feel discussion and questioning to be part of civic activity, and I agree, and am all for it.

There is always the horrible tendency of people to "get out the pitchforks", and we should be on the watch for it. That is bad. But people wanting honest, accountable, mature, non-coercive government, and forcefully questioning when something seems very wrong? That is good. It's very good.

J Hrlec wrote:Not sure if their just bored or retired or what.

I would love to be bored. I worked 83 hours last week. As busy as I am, I certainly would love to think all is well and good with the city, but I don't think it is.

“Steve, I am sick and tired of Fox News’s bullying and shenanigans. Rupert Murdoch has got to go. I will use the full force and power of my position to make this clear. I look forward to our meeting. – B. Obama”

“Steve, I am sick and tired of the New York Time’s bullying and shenanigans. Jill Abramson has got to go. I will use the full force and power of my position to make this clear. I look forward to our meeting. – GWB”

Would either/both of these be cause for outrage? I would certainly hope so. Just because we're talking about an Ohio suburb doesn't make it any less important.

“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” Perhaps 'evil' is a bit much here, but I think this about captures my feelings here.

I have said it before, I have no dog in this race. I don't know the parties involved here nor do I spend enough time here to know the cliques or who's in them. I see some folks ready to lynch Mr. Juris and I see some folks dismissing this entire thing. However, it seems there are at least a few people that see the importance of what's going on here and are asking for an open and honest dialog and investigation. If this was sent by Mr. Juris and he then lied about it, it seems a very important thing to know. If someone is hacking government and/or private email for some devious purpose then that too is equally important to know. (One can't know whether to vote for or against Mr. Juris without an independent determination of at least some basic facts in the case.)

I am thankful to Mr. Markling for his follow up and I feel somewhat guilty that I had not already done that in the name of being an engaged citizen.

I'll be honest, the apparent disconnect between the fact of what was said versus the fact of what was done is worrisome. However, I will do my best to keep an open mind until I hear more from the parties directly involved. Perhaps there is an explanation or something that hasn't come out yet. I'm not sure who that might come from outside of Mr. Juris and the mayor at this point. Hopefully there are some members of the fourth branch of government investigating.

I don't have a dog in this fight. In fact, I know none of the parties. But from what I have read in the Observer (which should probably be renamed) Juris and O'bloviate (who has been uncharacteristicdally absent from this thread) were engaged in a pissing contest.

Then a member of the staff of the Observer posted what appears to be an email suggesting that changes to the Observer were in order.

If in fact Mr. Juris sent the email, there is no evidence proving its authenticity, and Mr. Juris may or may not have evidence that he sent it (not all people configure their software to keep copies of what they sent, and those who do keep copies can easily delete them). If Mr. Juris did not send the email, he would have no way of proving that. That evidence would have to come from someone else.

The staff of the Observer has apparently not made true copies of the complete email available. One wonders why. Do they know it was bogus? Are they busy attempting to make the email appear to be genuine? Given the history between the parties, I do not discount the possibility that someone on the Observer staff forged the email in an attempt to defame or embarrass Mr. Juris. That they have not made the complete original email available makes this scenario seem more likely.

I'm not saying what an actual investigation would reveal. But the fact that some posters have leapt to conclusions based on incomplete evidence is troubling. The idea that these people could sit on juries or vote is frightening.

Will Brown wrote:The staff of the Observer has apparently not made true copies of the complete email available. One wonders why. Do they know it was bogus? Are they busy attempting to make the email appear to be genuine?

An email is an electronic message, existing on and between mail servers. Any screen shot or paper printout is just an instance or display of that message, not a "true copy". Other than the whiting-out of domain name of Steve's email address for privacy, I don't see anything obviously less than "complete". Full headers, sometimes a page or more of pure "computer speak," if that what is being asked for here, aren't normally displayed, and not everyone is even familiar with how to display them. I'm sure with some possible coaching, we could get the full headers of the email from Steve Davis.

Will Brown wrote:Given the history between the parties, I do not discount the possibility that someone on the Observer staff forged the email in an attempt to defame or embarrass Mr. Juris. That they have not made the complete original email available makes this scenario seem more likely.

That any of us should not completely "discount the possibility . . . Observer staff forged the email," that's certainly logical and correct. It shouldn’t, at this point, be DISCOUNTED. But that "this scenario seem[s] more likely"? Uh, I surely would like to know your reasoning. A spontaneous, intemperate, pompous threat that is unconsidered at the time as being repressive to civil rights, followed by a naive and panicked denial seems far more likely a scenario, to me, than a malicious, premeditated technological scheme to defame using a traceable format.

And here's why: Steve, or anyone at the Observer with the sophistication to perpetrate a email hoax for a "frame up" of Mr. Juris would be reasonably expected to know, or at least suspect, that emails can be either traced to the origin or show itself to be anonymized or spoofed, either of which would point a strongly suspicious finger (or worse) directly at the Observer.

Conversely, anyone "old school" enough not to realize that questionable expressions of anger should not be put into an electronic format, and also not realize that a threat like this is likely to be a 1st Amendment infringement, would also probably not realize that a simple denial is about the worst thing you could do, since normally delivered emails involve electronic trails and are therefore ultimately traceable.

We do in fact have two fairly coherent scenarios here, and I completely agree with you that, indeed, one really seems "more likely". In fact, one seems painfully far more likely. But somehow we disagree on which. I say "painfully" with sincerity, because it does pain me. I don't hate Mr. Juris. I don't know him or very much about him, other than that he was appointed to his Council seat and retained it as he ran unopposed in the next election.

If you're trying to be a friend to Mr. Juris, I'm not sure you are succeeding, because the greater the suggestion that the Observer has created this email in a deliberate attempt to harm Mr. Juris, the more need Steve Davis and the Observer has to officially clear their names of this taint by an official investigation, which would PROBABLY not be favorable to Mr. Juris.

I'm saying PROBABLY, because of course you, and some others, are very right: anything is within the realm of possibility, as long as there are no findings from an official investigation. Suggesting The Observer’s wrongdoing will tend to push things in this direction I would think. Which is good, as too much conjecture is exhausting. Those who take this seriously deserve better than "likelihood" anyway.

stephen davis wrote:To update all interested parties, I want it known that I went to the Lakewood Police Department, on my own volition, to offer any and all evidence related to the Shawn Juris e-mail for their investigation. It is now in their hands.

Steve, please elaborate. What happened, that day and since? Did they provide follow up? Were they able to ascertain anything? Since Mr. Juris did not apparently make an official police report, have you made one (or will you be making one)? Is the type of threat alleged appropriate for the local police or some other agency?

When you went to the Police, what exactly did you bring them (i.e. "any and all evidence related to the Shawn Juris e-mail") to help them investigate?

Thanks.

Below is a great discussion from the Robbery on St. Charles Ave. thread at http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11062&p=82384#p82384 so I’m sharing it here.

Colleen Wing wrote:Kristine, it is a shame that your neighbor didn't receive a nasty email instead of being burglarized...maybe it would have gotten more attention around here

Jeff Dreger wrote:I continue to be amazed (and angry) at how many citizens think that the POTENTIAL for a corrupt and power-hungry politician to have used his position to threaten the media and a private citizen with use of that power to take them down is not a big deal. If it were just a nasty email then there wouldn't be so much attention. I see nasty things on here all the time and never bother to pipe up because they don't rise to this level. Also, I assume the home owner filed a police report and they're investigating and doing what they can. Not much else for us to do unless a request from the police or resident is made. If that same effort had been made in the email-gate then there would be a police report and investigation and - again - there wouldn't be so much attention until possibly the results were available. The only reason it's become such a big deal is because there APPEARS to be silence, secrecy, deception, inaction, etc. We should demand everyone involved to be more open and upfront about this. IF the LO or JOB or associates are in any way responsible for forging or lying or otherwise for the media creating this controversy then they too should be held accountable. I can't see how sweeping this under the rug helps anyone. These kinds of things are let go and then the politicians and/or media know they can get away with it because people think there are bigger issues. Then we're stuck with people that can't handle the bigger issues because they're too involved in their own selfish pursuits.

Colleen Wing wrote:Are you aware of how people win elections around here? That is why things are the way they are. That is what you should be outraged about.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:

Colleen Wing wrote:Are you aware of how people win elections around here? That is why things are the way they are. That is what you should be outraged about.

Colleen

Let's be honest there is more than enough outrage to go around. And most of it well earned.

peace


.

Peter Grossetti wrote:Deep Throat: Then there must be something, mustn't there. Look, forget the myths the media's created about the White House--the truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

Woodward: If you don't like them, why won't you be more concrete with me?

Deep Throat: Because the press stinks too--history on the run, that's all you're interested in. You come up with anything?

Woodward: John Mitchell resigned as head of CREEP to spend more time with his family. That doesn't exactly have the ring of truth. Howard Hunt's been found--there was talk that his lawyer had 25 thousand in cash in a paper bag.

Deep Throat: Follow the money. Always follow the money.

Woodward: What do you mean? Where?

Deep Throat: Oh, I can't tell you that.

Woodward: But you could tell me that.

Deep Throat: No, I have to do this my way. You tell me what you know, and I'll confirm. I'll keep you in the right direction if I can, but that's all. Just... follow the money.

To be ABSOLUTELY clear, my "follow the money" post -as posted here and in the robbery thread - should NOT be construed as an indictment of Councilman Juris, Mr O'Bryan, Mr. Davis or anyone in particular "associated with" (and I used that term very loosely) Emailgate. It was posted in the Robbery thread merely as a retort to Colleen Wing's "That is why things are the way they are" comment.

Peter Grossetti wrote:To be ABSOLUTELY clear, my "follow the money" post -as posted here and in the robbery thread - should NOT be construed as an indictment of Councilman Juris, Mr O'Bryan, Mr. Davis or anyone in particular "associated with" (and I used that term very loosely) Emailgate. It was posted in the Robbery thread merely as a retort to Colleen Wing's "That is why things are the way they are" comment.

Peter,

Understood. Thanks for the clarification.

Matt

Mr. Juris' initial information report was assigned for investigation once the report was made and is being actively investigated by the Lakewood Police.

Kevin Butler
Law Director