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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:16 am
by Charlie Page
Brian Pedaci wrote:Once again, fraudulent registration does not equal fraudulent voting. That girl is never going to cast a ballot. More fodder for hand-waving freak-out that the right's going through now, trying to justify why their candidate is going to lose in a landslide.
Fraudulent registration equals fraudulent voting in quite a few states that don’t require some form of identification to verify yourself prior to casting a ballot. Go figure that voter fraud is rampant on the Dem side as they are the ones who oppose voter ID laws. Can someone enlighten me as to why having to prove who you are prior to voting is disenfranchising?
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:27 pm
by Charlie Page
WHAT exactly does a "community organizer" do? Barack Obama's rise has left many Americans asking themselves that question. Here's a big part of the answer: Community organizers intimidate banks into making high-risk loans to customers with poor credit.
In the name of fairness to minorities, community organizers occupy private offices, chant inside bank lobbies, and confront executives at their homes - and thereby force financial institutions to direct hundreds of millions of dollars in mortgages to low-credit customers.
In other words, community organizers help to undermine the US economy by pushing the banking system into a sinkhole of bad loans. And Obama has spent years training and funding the organizers who do it.
THE seeds of today's financial meltdown lie in the Community Reinvestment Act - a law passed in 1977 and made riskier by unwise amendments and regulatory rulings in later decades.
CRA was meant to encourage banks to make loans to high-risk borrowers, often minorities living in unstable neighborhoods. That has provided an opening to radical groups like ACORN (the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) to abuse the law by forcing banks to make hundreds of millions of dollars in "subprime" loans to often uncreditworthy poor and minority customers.
Read the rest:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09292008/po ... htm?page=0
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:36 pm
by Brian Pedaci
Charlie Page wrote:Brian Pedaci wrote:Once again, fraudulent registration does not equal fraudulent voting. That girl is never going to cast a ballot. More fodder for hand-waving freak-out that the right's going through now, trying to justify why their candidate is going to lose in a landslide.
Fraudulent registration equals fraudulent voting in quite a few states that don’t require some form of identification to verify yourself prior to casting a ballot. Go figure that voter fraud is rampant on the Dem side as they are the ones who oppose voter ID laws. Can someone enlighten me as to why having to prove who you are prior to voting is disenfranchising?
Once again, Charlie, you've got to prove the intent to defraud by actually casting multiple votes rather than someone trying to hold onto an $8/hr job with a quota of signing up 20 new voters a day. Find evidence of the alleged "busing homeless people from state to state" or "same guy voted in 8 different districts".
The margin of victory is likely going to be larger than can be attributed to ACORN's shenanigans.
I can't tell you why positive ID is disenfranchisement. I don't see it as an insurmountable bar to cross. Having some form of ID, even a state-issued ID (not a drivers license) is pretty much de rigeur for life in America now.
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:59 pm
by Stephen Eisel
Holy tool belt Batman!
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:02 pm
by Brian Pedaci
Lest you lay the blame ENTIRELY at the feet of the CRA, Fannie/Freddie, or ACORN,
consider this
• Did the 1977 legislation, or any other legislation since, require banks to not verify income or payment history of mortgage applicants?
• 50% of subprime loans were made by mortgage service companies not subject comprehensive federal supervision; another 30% were made by banks or thrifts which are not subject to routine supervision or examinations. How was this caused by either CRA or GSEs ?
• What about "No Money Down" Mortgages (0% down payments) ? Were they required by the CRA? Fannie? Freddie?
• Explain the shift in Loan to value from 80% to 120%: What was it in the Act that changed this traditional lending requirement?
• Did any Federal legislation require real estate agents and mortgage writers to use the same corrupt appraisers again and again? How did they manage to always come in at exactly the purchase price, no matter what?
• Did the CRA require banks to develop automated underwriting (AU) systems that emphasized speed rather than accuracy in order to process the greatest number of mortgage apps as quickly as possible?
• How exactly did legislation force Moody's, S&Ps and Fitch to rate junk paper as Triple AAA?
• What about piggy back loans? Were banks required by Congress to lend the first mortgage and do a HELOC for the down payment -- at the same time?
• Internal bank memos showed employees how to cheat the system to get poor mortgages prospects approved that shouldn't have been: Titled How to Get an "Iffy" loan approved at JPM Chase. (Was circulating that memo also a FNM/FRE/CRA requirement?)
Caseshillerpricedeclines_2
• The four biggest problem areas for housing (by price decreases) are: Phoenix, Arizona; Las Vegas, Nevada; Miami, Florida, and San Diego, California. Explain exactly how these affluent, non-minority regions were impacted by the Community Reinvesment Act ?
• Did the GSEs require banks to not check credit scores? Assets? Income?
• What was it about the CRA or GSEs that mandated fund managers load up on an investment product that was hard to value, thinly traded, and poorly understood
• What was it in the Act that forced banks to make "interest only" loans? Were "Neg Am loans" also part of the legislative requirements also?
• Consider this February 2003 speech by Countrywide CEO Angelo Mozlilo at the American Bankers National Real Estate Conference. He advocated zero down payment mortgages -- was that a CRA requirement too, or just a grab for more market share, and bad banking?
In other words, ACORN may have tried to coerce banks to change their policies, but nobody really forced them to. There was a potential profit to be made in that market (as long as home values continued to climb irrationally) and they seized it.
bullshit
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:13 pm
by ryan costa
banks and mortgage brokers were tripping over themselves to get these loans made. there were offers and advertising for them everywhere.
Early proponents of regulating away risky mortgage were met with skepticism or indifference from washington
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/co ... B+analysis
Acorn is required by law to turn into voter registration applications it knows or believes to be fraudulant:
http://www.callahansclevelanddiary.com/?p=700#more-700
ACORN turns applications in to election officials in three stacks: those we have verified, those we were unable to independently verify, and those we know are problematic. In most states we are required to turn in every signed application, including the ones we know have problems. In a few cases these applications have turned out to be phony, the result of part-time employees trying to get paid for doing work they didn’t do. (Contrary to rumor, ACORN canvassers are paid by the hour, not by the application, and there are no quotas.) In these cases ACORN has been credited with catching the bad applications, firing the workers involved, and alerting election officials to the problem. The system works, and, as most election officials have recognized, ACORN is part of the solution, not part of the problem.
.
Somebody must be doing something wrong, because there are homes for sale all up and down Lakeroad from bay Village to Lorain. were those homes purchased with subprime loans? what is a subprime loan? is it a ratio of loan amount to income level?
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:18 pm
by Brian Pedaci
Reports of daily voter registration quotas have come directly from those hired by ACORN. The denials have only come from ACORN administrators and spokespeople, so I'm not really inclined to believe that.
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:33 pm
by Stephen Eisel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o0FjnXGfXk
Unfortunately, the above clip shows the dems oppisition to more oversight/regualtion for Fannie and Freddie. Thanks to the dems on this committe, the bill was killed and the rest is history... Dems lied and my 401k died...
ok
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:41 pm
by ryan costa
I can only follow print journalism.
the article I posted previously indicates the feds did a lot of acrobatics to avoid using existing rules to prevent giant banks and lenders from acting irresponsibly. Wachovia wasn't fannie mae or freddie mac. national city wasn't fannie mae or freddie mac.
Re: ok
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:45 pm
by Stephen Eisel
ryan costa wrote:I can only follow print journalism.
the article I posted previously indicates the feds did a lot of acrobatics to avoid using existing rules to prevent giant banks and lenders from acting irresponsibly. Wachovia wasn't fannie mae or freddie mac. national city wasn't fannie mae or freddie mac.
trillions vs billions
banks
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:51 pm
by ryan costa
what are fannie and freddie in for? are they in for making the loans, or buying the loans of other banks?
Here's what John Bogle had to say a few months before the rest of the media suggested the burrito had hit the fan.
http://johncbogle.com/wordpress/wp-cont ... _11-07.pdf
John Bogle: a guy you can trust.
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:58 pm
by sharon kinsella
Redlining - a practice that has hurt lower income areas for way too long -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining
That's just the wikipedia definition which is by no means the final word, but many of you wouldn't have known if you'd even been born at the time it was first exposed. It went hand in hand with the Jim Crow laws.
History that has been missing from most American history classes.
Community organizers impact every area of social justice that you can think of.
I was an organizer, that was my profession. An organizer helps people band together to work toward the goal they have defined. The republicans don't like organizer's because so many of them are members of management or owners of businesses and want to be able to pay their workers whatever they want, which may not be in the best interest of workers.
By the way, how many of you studied the history of Union organizing in American history? Not many I would venture to say. It seems to have disappeared from the curriculum with the Reagan administration.
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:59 pm
by Brian Pedaci
Steven, that horse is good and dead. You can stop whipping it now. Fannie and Freddie alone weren't the be-all and end-all of the crisis. Their failures didn't happen in a vacuum, and fixing them in 2004 wouldn't necessarily have prevented the rest of the market implosion.
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:05 pm
by Stephen Eisel
Brian Pedaci wrote:Steven, that horse is good and dead. You can stop whipping it now. Fannie and Freddie alone weren't the be-all and end-all of the crisis. Their failures didn't happen in a vacuum, and fixing them in 2004 wouldn't necessarily have prevented the rest of the market implosion.
ok spiderman... keep on spinning those webs

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:24 pm
by Stephen Eisel
http://www.allbusiness.com/banking-fina ... 203-1.html
The total worldwide mortgage debt that is held by, or guaranteed by, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is about one-half of the total U.S. mortgage debt of $12 trillion. That means the total debt of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was slightly more than one-half the debt of the United States when the institutions were placed in conservatorship (similar to a Chapter 11 reorganization bankruptcy) by the government. Assuming responsibility for Fannie and Freddie has caused the country to increase its total debt by more than 50 percent