The Observation Deck

OMG I was just thinking the same thing!!! Thanks for the reminder Ivor, but what I was specifically thinking was, UNLESS YOU SIT IN THE SHOES OF A FAMILY MEMBER WHOM HAS LOST A FATHER, BROTHER, SON, DAUGHTER MOTHER, ETC. HOW DARE YOU SIT IN YOUR NICE HOME AND SAY THIS WAR IS JUSTIFIED STEHPEN E.?

Justine, I have the same right as you to express my opinion on this war from my home. My opinion is not validated or invalidated by the status of having loss a love one in Iraq. I should not be restricted in my thoughts or expressions by your standards. (Creating any type of standard to restrict free speech is very dangerous) On a personal note, I am very aware that our soldiers are being killed and seriously injured in Iraq. I also know that some soldiers feel that this is a justified war.

First of all we both have the right to our opinions, and mine is that I find it offensive to hear one sit from an armchair with no sacrifices or effort put into the war on a personal level, yet cheer on this war, that the overwhelming majority of this country and others know was wrong and a mistake where humans are dying daily and there is no win, no way out. THat is my opinion.

To call me dangerous for having it is laughable.

Your friend believing in the war and enlisting is a different story. He is standing behind what he believes in and sacrificing but that still doesn't justify all the other lives lost.

All I say is put your money where your mouth is. From the onset of this war I have debated on the side that it was horribly wrong and have always said to people who believed in it "If you believe in it are you enlisted or would you send your child to fight this war?" I think that is a fair question. Everyone I know that supported this war from the beginning has quietly stepped back and changed their mind since. If you support the war, you support the war. All I am saying is I find it offensive for people with no sacrifice to sit and cheer this on as right or just. And if you believe in the war so much, then help support the soldiers coming home that need help. I am tired of people who talk the talk and don't walk the walk.

When a group of people demonstrated in a peace rally here in Lakewood they were criticized for what they did wrong and that letter was allowed to be printed in our local paper. I was disgusted by the space it took up in the paper insulting this group. Mother Theresa once said "I will never attend a war protest but give me a Peace March and I will be there". My opinion is that pro-war vocalists come off as bullies, with no back up in truly supporting what they believe in, other than words. I am done with the conversation so go on all you want. But actions speak louder than words.

I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent."-Mahatma Gandhi

Teach this triple truth to all: A generous heart, kind speech, and a life of service and compassion are the things which renew humanity."-The Buddah

You are hillarious Justine. So does everyone who believes in abortion have an abortion in order to put their money where there mouth is? I never said that you were dangerous. I said that restricting free speech is dangerous. Your Michael Moore logic is quite amusing. I do not have to send my children to war or go to war myself in order to have voice or opinion on the war. Again, you are applying your standards to my free speech. I do not recall ever standing up and cheering for the war. I do recall laying out the facts on why the US went to war with Iraq.

From where I sit, you were cheering on this war and justifying it with no action behind it.

Does everyone have to have an abortion to support pro-choice? No but how ironic is it that the ones who are most vocal against abortion, also don't want to include sex education in schools, support single-parent houses, or adopt/foster the children born unwanted. And the ones who support "pro-life" often support wars. How is that pro-life? Tired of the talk and not the walk. We all have opinions, but voicing them is not enough. WE all need to back up what we believe in with action.

If I amused someone or made someone laugh today then I have done my job. That doesn't offend me in the least.

If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.

Stephen -

How ridiculous to bring abortion into the mix here. You obviously don't understand that the right to determine what happens to our bodies (which the women and children in Iraq don't have as a long as they die becuase of this war) also means that you can choose not to have an abotion.

Keep your laws off my bodies and fight your da** war yourself and leave the rest of us out of it.

There's an old Irish saying "No one can justify evil as well as the devil".

I have always believed that bringing our troops home and putting them on the US border would be a much better use for them. Also, the rest of the world should be helping us in Iraq.

Why should they help if they never believed in attacking there? Why should they put their children to die for a war they never believed in? We should have spent more time working with the United Nations bringing Saddam up on charges than jumping into a war and then expecting everyone to follow. Why would they devastate their country physically, spiritually and financially for our mistake, something they don't even believe in? We darn sure would be safer with our military at home if the terrorist threat is real!

sharon kinsella wrote:If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.

Stephen -

How ridiculous to bring abortion into the mix here. You obviously don't understand that the right to determine what happens to our bodies (which the women and children in Iraq don't have as a long as they die becuase of this war) also means that you can choose not to have an abotion.

Keep your laws off my bodies and fight your da** war yourself and leave the rest of us out of it.

There's an old Irish saying "No one can justify evil as well as the devil".

Sharon, it was an anology. You need to start reading what I post before you go off half cocked.

So does everyone who believes in abortion have an abortion in order to put their money where there mouth is?

OHHH - don't even bring up half - co****!

Justine Cooper wrote:Why should they help if they never believed in attacking there? Why should they put their children to die for a war they never believed in? We should have spent more time working with the United Nations bringing Saddam up on charges than jumping into a war and then expecting everyone to follow. Why would they devastate their country physically, spiritually and financially for our mistake, something they don't even believe in? We darn sure would be safer with our military at home if the terrorist threat is real!

Side note: I think that Ivor hit the nail on the head.

Justine, we spent over 12 years working with the UN on the issue of Iraq. Recalling all its previous relevant resolutions, in particular its resolutions 661 (1990) of 6 August 1990, 678 (1990) of 29 November 1990, 686 (1991) of 2 March 1991, 687 (1991) of 3 April 1991, 688 (1991) of 5 April 1991, 707 (1991) of 15 August 1991, 715 (1991) of 11 October 1991, 986 (1995) of 14 April 1995, and 1284 (1999) of 17 December 1999. We did not have our ducks in a row pre-invasion. We completely under estimated the Al Qaeda / insurgent factor. The US should have either worked with Syria and Iran or put them on notice. I agree that we would be safer with our soldiers at home. (I have just recently changed my opinion on this)

I'm retracting my half cocked smart remark -

What I should have said was the analogy was off the mark.

While abortion is about control over a woman's body by the woman - war is about imposing control over another or resisting that control.

Totally different issues - wrong analogy.

Stephen Eisel wrote:

Justine Cooper wrote:Why should they help if they never believed in attacking there? Why should they put their children to die for a war they never believed in? We should have spent more time working with the United Nations bringing Saddam up on charges than jumping into a war and then expecting everyone to follow. Why would they devastate their country physically, spiritually and financially for our mistake, something they don't even believe in? We darn sure would be safer with our military at home if the terrorist threat is real!

Side note: I think that Ivor hit the nail on the head.

Justine, we spent over 12 years working with the UN on the issue of Iraq. Recalling all its previous relevant resolutions, in particular its resolutions 661 (1990) of 6 August 1990, 678 (1990) of 29 November 1990, 686 (1991) of 2 March 1991, 687 (1991) of 3 April 1991, 688 (1991) of 5 April 1991, 707 (1991) of 15 August 1991, 715 (1991) of 11 October 1991, 986 (1995) of 14 April 1995, and 1284 (1999) of 17 December 1999. We did not have our ducks in a row pre-invasion. We completely under estimated the Al Qaeda / insurgent factor. The US should have either worked with Syria and Iran or put them on notice. I agree that we would be safer with our soldiers at home. (I have just recently changed my opinion on this)

Well then you confuse me. Ivor seemed to be hitting the same nail as me. Did I miss something? This is about the destruction this war has brought to Iraq and our country. So we underestimated the enemy? Kind of like in Vietnam where we went in where we didn't belong, butchered many including our own, maimed for life thousands of others. At least in this war our country has learned not to turn on the soldiers. But shouldn't we have learned more from the devastation of the Vietnam more? How did we go so backwards?

His personal experience and insight got my thinking.

I'm just going back to my experiences in life and learning from them, shaping a opinion.

You see, when I was born in a civil war and was forced to flee from my country and lose all of my family, my school mates who went through the same thing were watching video tapes of beheaded fathers and being taught to hate anyone of the "other" nationality. Parents would ask family members in the war to video tape the fighting that was going on in their front porch, so that they can show their kids why certain nationalities should be hated.

Now that's not war, that's civil war.

And if you want to continue to let that happen by not making the people of Iraq change (since we're doing all the work for them) then feel free to. That's your choice and your opinion. You just won't have an ounce of credibility or respect coming from me since your opinion is making the children of Iraq suffer the same way my family members did.

Well I am glad something did but you prove the point of you own question then, "do you need to have had an abortion to defend the right" I guess all the arguments I made about the human destruction meant nothing, until you heard from one who actually live through it.