Did the LO endorse Obama or am I missing something?

[Jim O'Bryan]

All

Very valid points, with one very large exception.

The source of the question.

PLEASE do a search for Ryan Salo, and you can see that he asks this question every election cycle, always gets the answer, creates the heat, and fades away. I could go farther but there is no point

I have now begin to see this as nothing short of bullying, for the sake of bullying. Normally I find the rhetoric as laughable, but this one was clearly directed against my wife. Again, go back and read the thread. Three times I made it clear that it was my wife's sign in her window of her business. Forget the perceptions and think of the reality. Now he can say, it would not matter if it was a McCain sign, but we know that is a LIE.

So, Paul, Charlie, Jeff, and the rest what would you do if a bully tried to push your wife around and take away her first amendment rights? Now maybe Mr. Salo feels a woman's place is in the kitchen and bedroom, I see my wife as my equal if not better than I in business, and life. PLEASE try to see it for what it is, he knew full well what was going on. Colleen Wing, and Ryan Salo were not confused? Another Lie.

Last night, I was at Sullivan's to watch the first part of the debate. We ended up leaving because so many people had come up to Deb, and told her. "do not let this man take away her liberty and freedom." They saw it as a direct attack on her first amendment rights. One wanted to represent her. We just wanted to relax.



Crowd watching debate, hosting a democratic club meeting. Does this mean that Sullivan's is backing Obama?

As I said, I found it laughable, except, I have been through this with Ryan each election cycle, and now it does seem much like the work of a goon.

To me, I consider the source, but let's see how Channel 19 spins it tonight.



Councilman from Ward 2 and Katherine Segrue from the Barack Obama campaign at Sullivan's Irish Pub, get ready for the debate, after assuring Deb they would help in anyway they could.

FWIW


.

[Paul Schrimpf]

I surrender, wave the white flag, give up. I told you, as a media professional, my opinion. I care about the brand and its perception and think there's value to defending its neutrality, and truly believe that neutrality is compromised by the position of the signs. As your signature states, if you find what I say useful, great ... if not, forget about it. I'll assume it's forgotten.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I surrender, wave the white flag, give up. I told you, as a media professional, my opinion. I care about the brand and its perception and think there's value to defending its neutrality, and truly believe that neutrality is compromised by the position of the signs. As your signature states, if you find what I say useful, great ... if not, forget about it. I'll assume it's forgotten.

Paul


Thank you for your guidance in this.

While I am not sure this actually reflects on neutrality, as much as a huge misunderstanding by the public on the Lakewood Observer, I will take your words as a professional and as a valued contributor.

In the end, my wife though disappointed took the high road with TV and said "no comment."

I believe it will be in the best interested of all to restart our evening with the Observers, where we bring members of the city, the paper and the public together over coffee, tea, wine and beer. To discuss where the community believes the project should go.

Thank you.

.

[Missy Limkemann]

I believe it will be in the best interested of all to restart our evening with the Observers, where we bring members of the city, the paper and the public together over coffee, tea, wine and beer.

I am wherever there is beer!!!! I will bring the BLT dip.

[Charlie Page]

So, Paul, Charlie, Jeff, and the rest what would you do if a bully tried to push your wife around and take away her first amendment rights?

Jim - There are two reasons why a man would not stand up for his wife. Either he's not a man or he doesn't love her. I don't believe either apply in this situation.

[Ryan Salo]

All,

This has gotten way out of hand, and I am sorry for any role that I took it causing it.

Deb,

If you took anything that I said as an attack, I am sorry. I was simply trying to point out an observation that I had.

Jim,

You and I have gone back and forth on a lot of different topics. I am sorry that this one seemed to really push your buttons and I don't hold any grudges against you.

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

Did someone mention beer?

I mean, tea?

[Debra O'Bryan]

Deb,

If you took anything that I said as an attack, I am sorry. I was simply trying to point out an observation that I had.

Ryan Salo

I never saw it as a personal attack, but did see it as an attack on my rights as an American. All of us should be encouraging healthy political expression, and taking an active part in the process, not trying to stop it.

The personal attack that did bother me was, the references to the "little" Observer Advisory Board to which I am a proud member. These are quality good hearted giving people. This volunteer board has worked, strained and even underwrote the Observer, so that you would have a public forum to insult our efforts? It is very disappointing.


Deb

[Stephen Eisel]

Deb,

If you took anything that I said as an attack, I am sorry. I was simply trying to point out an observation that I had.

Ryan Salo

I never saw it as a personal attack, but did see it as an attack on my rights as an American. All of us should be encouraging healthy political expression, and taking an active part in the process, not trying to stop it.

The personal attack that did bother me was, the references to the "little" Observer Advisory Board to which I am a proud member. These are quality good hearted giving people. This volunteer board has worked, strained and even underwrote the Observer, so that you would have a public forum to insult our efforts? It is very disappointing.


Deb

All

Very valid points, with one very large exception.

The source of the question.

PLEASE do a search for Ryan Salo, and you can see that he asks this question every election cycle, always gets the answer, creates the heat, and fades away. I could go farther but there is no point

I have now begin to see this as nothing short of bullying, for the sake of bullying. Normally I find the rhetoric as laughable, but this one was clearly directed against my wife. Again, go back and read the thread. Three times I made it clear that it was my wife's sign in her window of her business. Forget the perceptions and think of the reality. Now he can say, it would not matter if it was a McCain sign, but we know that is a LIE.

So, Paul, Charlie, Jeff, and the rest what would you do if a bully tried to push your wife around and take away her first amendment rights? Now maybe Mr. Salo feels a woman's place is in the kitchen and bedroom, I see my wife as my equal if not better than I in business, and life. PLEASE try to see it for what it is, he knew full well what was going on. Colleen Wing, and Ryan Salo were not confused? Another Lie.

Last night, I was at Sullivan's to watch the first part of the debate. We ended up leaving because so many people had come up to Deb, and told her. "do not let this man take away her liberty and freedom." They saw it as a direct attack on her first amendment rights. One wanted to represent her. We just wanted to relax.

This was not an attack on your rights.... It was more like two people overreacting....


PS this is cyber space....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1uaiE8T7Nc

[Jim O'Bryan]

This was not an attack on your rights.... It was more like two people overreacting....

Actually, I would put it closer to one starting the fire, the second adding some lighter fluid and fanning the flames. Then another couple who takes their rights and hard work very seriously, bringing the gallon of white gas. Bes way to fight those pesky little pyro fires, is to dig in and back burn.

Legitimate questions, how many times does a person have to explain a project, the finances, ownership, etc. to a person(s) that are just trying to stir the crap up on the lowest of levels?

The very legitimate question of the sign in the window, gets lost, when the person on the other side refuse to listen to any very legal, very correct and very protected answers. Maybe this is what fanned the flames to the level it does. Maybe, just maybe it might have been some of the conversation in this very public forum through back channels, and on the street?

Maybe, some people take their rights as American too much? I find that an odd stance from you.

But then as you and I have witnessed, right now political backfires are impossible. People are blind right now to anything but winning at all costs. Normally good people throw it all out the window to keep "their team."

In the end, I have friends, and my family, So does a person side with their family and wife, or roll over against everything they believe in? Do I side with people that have given 5 years of their lives to this project, or a few that have not?

A silly over blown argument. Sure. A viable important discussion. You bet.

But let me take my wife's back one more time, and let's compare the players;
LO's Little Board: Heidi Hilty, Vice President Merrill Lynch, has been involved heavily in everything from The Lakewood Project, to the Alumni Foundation, Ken Warren, Director of the Lakewood Public Library, top library in America 5 out of the last 6 years, headed up the $12 million dollar rebuild and behind 80% of everything that is succeeding in this city, Lauren Fine, the top print/media expert/analyst on Wall Street and worldwide for the last 11 years, as voted by her peers, On the board of The Art Museum, The Cleveland Foundation, and another 20 philanthropic positive groups in USA and Cleveland, now teaching at Kent State, while writing the book on how people will disseminate news in the next 30 years, Tim Curtiss, Yale graduate 20 years as upper level management on Wall Street, Steve Ott lawyer, on the board of Lakewood Hospital, LCPI, and many many other groups. Jeff Endress lawyer, Lakewood Library Board, and many other boards, Deb O'Bryan ran Gershwin's for five years, a 800 seat upscale restaurant that closed three years after she left due to miss-management, and now oversees three award winning businesses, Steve Davis, Printer, served on two Charter Review Committees, DL Meckes, head of 4Design, that is bringing high quality content management to non-profits and cities, give vast amounts of time and support to many non-profits. Dan Ott who heads technology with a group of 20 programmers, and finally myself, a high school graduate, barely.

These people have given time, money, contacts, and more. Some have given huge chunks of their lives over the last 6 years to work on this public groundbreaking, history making project, that is succeeding on every level, laid out 6 years ago.

What amazes me, is that some think, this board looses their minds and sets all of their experience and hard work at the door when meeting and working on this. I would say the opposite is true, the board meetings are heated, and the work is hard, and thankless. Meanwhile, some very small minds, try behind the scenes to kill this project, to try to force people to quit this board, even calling advertisers and supporters and telling them lies, and mistruths. Threatening to stop using their services or businesses. Why? I understand why the Plain Dealer and Sun Papers want to drive Observer Inc. out of business, but other Lakewoodites? So called civic leaders? What are they hiding or running from?

Eisel, you travel the boards, you see and read the vile bullshit that has been spread about this project, and these people, by some in this very discussion.

And here is all this board, and every member of this project has done; Deliver an open media project where all are equal, and all willing to own their words have the same voice.

So did I overreact? Not when you consider the source.


.

.

[Stephen Eisel]

Eisel, you travel the boards, you see and read the vile bullshit that has been spread about this project, and these people, by some in this very discussion.

And here is all this board, and every member of this project has done; Deliver an open media project where all are equal, and all willing to own their words have the same voice.

So did I overreact? Not when you consider the source.

Who was the acron? And who was chicken little?

[Gary Rice]

Well, now, harrumph (clears throat)

As one whose parents were from both sides of the Civil War... (or was that the War Between the States?)

As one whose photo has ended up in both (!) the Sun Post and the Lakewood Observer this week... (Now THAT'S consensus!)

As a Libra (just having my birthday :D ) and of course, Libras always seeking the balance in things...

As one whose banjo keeps bringing seemingly impossible sides together...

I'd say it's time to SING! (to the tune of, well, you know...)

Someone's left of you, Lakewood's fine
Someone's right of you, Lakewood's fine
Someone's voting now, Lakewood's fine
Let's just smile at...Lakewood's signs

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

See ya' at the Hippie Hootenanny at 2 p.m. on Sunday at Lakewood Library!

[dl meckes]

Ryan,

Thank you for your apology. IMO this did go to melt-down in record time.

It is a difficult issue for the LO because we are all sensitive to issues concerning individual rights and perceptions regarding the paper.

When the LO decides to back a candidate, it will be done transparently and through the paper. There has not yet been any agreement that would allow this to happen.

[Stephen Eisel]

This was not an attack on your rights.... It was more like two people overreacting....

Actually, I would put it closer to one starting the fire, the second adding some lighter fluid and fanning the flames. Then another couple who takes their rights and hard work very seriously, bringing the gallon of white gas. Bes way to fight those pesky little pyro fires, is to dig in and back burn.

Legitimate questions, how many times does a person have to explain a project, the finances, ownership, etc. to a person(s) that are just trying to stir the crap up on the lowest of levels?

The very legitimate question of the sign in the window, gets lost, when the person on the other side refuse to listen to any very legal, very correct and very protected answers. Maybe this is what fanned the flames to the level it does. Maybe, just maybe it might have been some of the conversation in this very public forum through back channels, and on the street?

Maybe, some people take their rights as American too much? I find that an odd stance from you.

But then as you and I have witnessed, right now political backfires are impossible. People are blind right now to anything but winning at all costs. Normally good people throw it all out the window to keep "their team."

In the end, I have friends, and my family, So does a person side with their family and wife, or roll over against everything they believe in? Do I side with people that have given 5 years of their lives to this project, or a few that have not?

A silly over blown argument. Sure. A viable important discussion. You bet.

But let me take my wife's back one more time, and let's compare the players;
LO's Little Board: Heidi Hilty, Vice President Merrill Lynch, has been involved heavily in everything from The Lakewood Project, to the Alumni Foundation, Ken Warren, Director of the Lakewood Public Library, top library in America 5 out of the last 6 years, headed up the $12 million dollar rebuild and behind 80% of everything that is succeeding in this city, Lauren Fine, the top print/media expert/analyst on Wall Street and worldwide for the last 11 years, as voted by her peers, On the board of The Art Museum, The Cleveland Foundation, and another 20 philanthropic positive groups in USA and Cleveland, now teaching at Kent State, while writing the book on how people will disseminate news in the next 30 years, Tim Curtiss, Yale graduate 20 years as upper level management on Wall Street, Steve Ott lawyer, on the board of Lakewood Hospital, LCPI, and many many other groups. Jeff Endress lawyer, Lakewood Library Board, and many other boards, Deb O'Bryan ran Gershwin's for five years, a 800 seat upscale restaurant that closed three years after she left due to miss-management, and now oversees three award winning businesses, Steve Davis, Printer, served on two Charter Review Committees, DL Meckes, head of 4Design, that is bringing high quality content management to non-profits and cities, give vast amounts of time and support to many non-profits. Dan Ott who heads technology with a group of 20 programmers, and finally myself, a high school graduate, barely.

These people have given time, money, contacts, and more. Some have given huge chunks of their lives over the last 6 years to work on this public groundbreaking, history making project, that is succeeding on every level, laid out 6 years ago.

What amazes me, is that some think, this board looses their minds and sets all of their experience and hard work at the door when meeting and working on this. I would say the opposite is true, the board meetings are heated, and the work is hard, and thankless. Meanwhile, some very small minds, try behind the scenes to kill this project, to try to force people to quit this board, even calling advertisers and supporters and telling them lies, and mistruths. Threatening to stop using their services or businesses. Why? I understand why the Plain Dealer and Sun Papers want to drive Observer Inc. out of business, but other Lakewoodites? So called civic leaders? What are they hiding or running from?

Eisel, you travel the boards, you see and read the vile bullshit that has been spread about this project, and these people, by some in this very discussion.

And here is all this board, and every member of this project has done; Deliver an open media project where all are equal, and all willing to own their words have the same voice.

So did I overreact? Not when you consider the source.


.

.

Jim, if the board backs you on this then I am ok with the everything... Has anyone else on the board posted in this thread supporting you?


PS If the comments of one old crazy lady at a McCain / Palin rally can indict an entire political party imagine what your rantings on this board do to the Project..

[Jeff Endress]

Jim, if the board backs you on this then I am ok with the everything... Has anyone else on the board posted in this thread supporting you?

Yeah....I think if you review the thread, you'll find that the following took a more or less favorable approach to Jim:

His wife
Steve Davis
DL Meckes
Myself

The board backs free speech, open access and the dissemination of information. We are thankful that AGS GIVES us space for the project. The Observer no more backs any candidate than does Rozi's whose signs are also nearby. We appreciate AGS allowing us to display an Observer banner in their window. That donated space doesn't, nor should it, preclude those who actually pay rent on the space from excercising their right under the 1st Amendment.

Jeff