The Observation Deck

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Rick Uldricks wrote:EiselWatch.blogspot.com

Whoa. I'm away from the board a couple of days, and bam, explosion.

First, debating the 2nd Amendment is waste of time. That's been done all over the country. Trying to stop the manufacturing of guns, or the right to carry guns will not stop the shootings.

If you want a gun in certain areas, all you have to do is know where to go. You can yell out , I want to buy a gun, and you'll have 5 guys approaching you with guns that never saw a gun shop, and you will not have to fill out a FFL form, for damn sure. You might need to get back in your car and drive like hell to get out of the area tho'.

That equals the bad guys have guns and good guys don't.

What we NEED to do is what was being discussed at the beginning of this thread.

Where can we find the funds to help jack up the police department.

I can assure you that in a small town that Bill **** lives in, a good bud of mine who is a police officer formerly of a near burb of Cleveland and now a police officer in another state, there are little to no violent crime, because the police are high in number compared to most big cities and the judges there give out what we northerners might consider heavy handed sentences for violent crime.

More so, a city with a high visable police department is the city that the bad guys would rather stay out of.

Have our police cars painted traditional black and white. Give our police the money as I outlined in my post elsewhere on the Deck. Where do we get the money?
It can come from small things, like why not a local sin tax on ciggs and liquor? Why not go over the budget of the whole city and find where areas can be shaved and channel the money to the police department?

Again, I am willing to kick off a citizen patrol thing, as I have been begging for, long before the crime has come to this level, but either 1) Too many people will complain but not want to put words into action or 2) A very few are willing to do something (some of which did offer to volunteer) but to do this, it takes a good amount of people and some money for communications, and other "stuff" to make it work.

Once again I'll make the offer to help kick a citizen's patrol off. Contact me if your interested, and those that did in the past, please re-contact me. Maybe more than a handful might be willing to act more now. Private message to start, if you like or if you don't mind your name being public, post it.

Again we need to get back to the issue of finding solutions and not beat on a drum regarding the 2nd Amendment and politics. This is non-political. The Bad Guys don't give "darn" about politics. They go where they feel safe to do what they want to do, and they don't go where they keep seeing the ominus look of a police car making a slow cruise every couple of minutes.

Find the money for helping our police department. It's somewhere, other cities have done it, so can we. It's a matter of what we think is most important right now.
If we can't afford to hire Blackwater (since their rather busy right now), call Triple Canopy, Dyncorp or a few others. (I'm not being serious here for those with hair trigger opinions).

Mark Allan Crnolatas

http://www.myfoxcleveland.com/myfox/MyF ... cale=EN-US

I hope that this young adult is not scarred for life. It gives me hope for the future when young adults like this speak beyond their age..

I would have to think that there are a large pool of criminals to fine in Lakewood. It would be mathematically inconcievable that we have 2 attempted murders in less than a month but no other convicted felony charges. While parking meters may not be a gateway crime I find it unlikely that shooting someone is the first criminal act that you commit. The probability that out of the blue with no prior history of crime and no other individuals participating in crime, this city could just end up with 2 shootings is highly unlikely. So fine the hell out of the ones that we have caught. Isn't problem of funding crime prevention a self contained solution? Unless the police are not catching anyone they should be able to finance their own department with the fines handed out by the courts. Now if Lakewood was as safe and crime free as it once was then there would be a reliance on tax dollars to pay for the patrolling to keep it that way. But it's not, so shouldn't we be rolling in fines collected from criminals? What would need to happen to increase the fine that our courts can hand out? It's one thing to recommend increasing patrols and pay for it with more taxes but what about making those responsible for the problem pay the bill?

so as this thread continues, yet another school shooting, this one right down the street from where I work.

"more cops" doesn't solve this type of crime.

"more studies" doesn't solve this type of crime.

"higher property values" doesn't solve this type of crime.

The only way to attack the problem is to be a better parent, a more caring friend and a more conscientious neighbor. And sometimes that isn't even enough.

Gary Rice wrote: As far as hand guns, paring knives, ball bats or any other potentially lethal device is concerned, proper knowledge and training is paramount.

The NRA stands at the forefront of gun safety. Rules for young people encountering a gun are spelled out quite clearly in many safety programs:

Stop! Don't touch! Leave the area! Tell an adult!

The problem, so often, stems from a lack of knowledge about the very real dangers involved with irresponsible gun usage and handling.

Gary, I must respectfully take you to task on this post.

We have seen a number of young people who seem to be very handy with and knowledgeable about guns. They had no trouble finding and using the guns.

These folks are not interested in the N.R.A. or the second amendment, the Golden Rule, the Ten Commandments, etc.

They want to shoot someone in retaliation for some transgression. Sometimes they want to shoot a particular person. Sometimes they are not picky.

We can line our streets with police and it won't stop the easy access to guns. It won't stop the violence.

The N.R.A. has done nothing to stop the sale of guns to people who have no business owning guns.

Violence and anger is overwhelming us. Somehow we can make it more difficult to buy a pack of cigarettes than a gun.

It has to stop.

my solution for the gun control problem remains a simple one...

anyone caught with an illegal firearm should be shot with it.

Surviving the shooting would only add a higher cool factor.

dl,

With respect, read my post.

I was discussing NRA educational efforts.

Not NRA politics.

The NRA, and any number of other groups offer courses for youth and adults regarding the safe handling of guns, as would a shop class offer rules regarding safe tool handling.

Guns are out there now, whether we like it or not.

After the suicide of my young cousin due to a firearm, I resolved that I would do what I could to help to decrease firearm violence. I'm no fan of guns, but I realize that part of the immediate solution lies with better education and awareness of what's going on around us.

Cleveland Schools are closed tomorrow. (I think that this is a good move)

Bret Callentine wrote:so as this thread continues, yet another school shooting, this one right down the street from where I work.

"more cops" doesn't solve this type of crime.

"more studies" doesn't solve this type of crime.

"higher property values" doesn't solve this type of crime.

The only way to attack the problem is to be a better parent, a more caring friend and a more conscientious neighbor. And sometimes that isn't even enough.

Excellent points Bret! It does take a village to raise a child..

While working along with Cleveland Police, I saw and knew of many homicides and use of other "tools" besides guns to do the job. Knives, bricks, bottles, boiling water, you name it, if someone wants to kill someone, whatever handy becomes a deadly weapon. Hang out awhile at Metro E.R., and you'll get an eyeful. It's back to guns are simple machines. They don't kill people, people kill people. Your car can kill a large group of people quite easy. So can a ballbat, most anything in your kitchen, your telephone, just about anything.

Debates on pro or anti NRA ends up going on forever. We did that on the Buzz before the Deck came about.

The issue is violent crime in OUR city. What are we going to do about it NOW.

I have disagree with "more police do not have an effect". I've seen areas in Europe, where when "lined with police" no one blinked an eye without making sure they did it correctly.

Correcting bad parenting, while I agree, isn't going to fix things now. We need to fix things ASAP.

We have 4 options: Ignore it, whine, find solutions or move out.

Which do you choose?

I love our city. I say we find solutions and not get into the typical debate on the NRA in this thread at least. Let's find a way to curb the coming of more violence, and focus on the curbing of violence in our city, not on if a knife, gun or hammer would be used in a homicide.

Mark Allan Crnolatas

To the idea: Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

I say: People kill people...with guns.

And if guns were not as handy, the angry/disturbed/whatever person might use a pipe or a hand or a knife, but the damage would usually be less severe or less easy to inflict.

Gary Rice wrote:dl,

With respect, read my post.

I was discussing NRA educational efforts.

Gary, please pardon my tone, this is not personal and I'm upset.

How are the N.R.A.'s educational efforts relevant to gun-toting drug dealers or upset fourteen-year-olds?How does the N.R.A. outreach to those gun users?

I will not continue the rant, because it is not constructive.

I think Brett began the constructive phase of the conversation.

The only way to attack the problem is to be a better parent, a more caring friend and a more conscientious neighbor.

How do we come together to do this? And how do we get these guns off the street?