The Observation Deck

I agree mostly Bryan, except that there are people that live in Lakewood that want to move to a community that is considered "higher class" AND all white. There are areas around the country that are not so divided in race as Ohio is, from my perception. I wonder why that is.

Good Day All,
It is not a matter of race or economic concerns. The section 8 debate boils down to a feeling of entitlement and ownership. People living under the rule of CMHA have no sense of belonging that is required to integrate into a community. Many of them have been flopped around from apartment to apartment and never had the chance to settle in. They also have the farthest thing from ownership of the property they live. In order for people to feel a responsibility to themselves and their neighbors they need to feel like they are in control of their surroundings. When living under section 8 they do not have control of the piece of land they inhabit and in turn have no incentive to keep up the property, or appearances for that matter. The prevailing attitude becomes “Don’t worry about it the city will clean it up.â€Â￾ That I believe is where the fundamental change needs to happen. How you implement such a change… Haven’t gotten that far yet.

Jim

Please pardon the thread drift, I am sure you understand thread drift.

There are ways to address much of this but it becomes increasingly hard in a built out city. Habitat for Humanity one of my favorite charities allows people to put sweat equity into their homes.

Landlords in Lakewood need to take some classes from David Anderson.

We have some out of the box ideas that we would love to share with you, do you have anytime this week? Also nice to get another person onboard.


.

With all of the sincerity that I possess, I offer the following thought.

I would rather have the lemonade-seller and her family as my neighbors, than anyone who does not want her around, for whatever reason.

Hebrews 13.2

Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

What if she had been one of those?

Would a begging monk, having taken vows of poverty, be welcome in our town? Have we come so far in our materialistic mentality of manicured bushes and tri-tone painted homes? Do we feel so much better than our needful neighbors? Can we paint Section 8 with that broad of a brush? I think not, friends, and I know just a bit of what I write here.

As a member of the Community Development Block Grant Committee, I help to oversee a good dead of Federal fund-needs disbursement in Lakewood. There's a lot of good going on with the poor and needful in our community, and I believe that they do a great deal of good for the rest of us, as well..

As one who had to eat beans and cornbread many nights as a child, I believe that I turned out pretty well. You may, of course, disagree.

Those of you who worship at the altar of materialism, need to know this: Caskets do not come with luggage racks. One day, we will all perish no richer or poorer than the lemonade seller.

Truly, I believe that this lemonade seller has more dignity than many of the rest of us.

Dave Sharosky wrote:

Stephen Eisel wrote:Where are the Kool-Aid police when you need them?

Why the comment stephen? I am trying to have a serious talk here. Basically about social norms and what's acceptable. I guess my point is about lack of parenting or lack of knowledge for her parents. Where all starting to be affected by people that don't know what boundaries are or just don't care. Why am I so upset? I'm a 34 year old male (8 year transplant to lakewood from the east side) who is about to marry a 34 year old female (lifelong resident of lakewood). We're planning on starting a family very soon. Right now we both agree lakewood is not the ideal place to raise children. I hate seeing any city, especially one that was so beautiful, start to fall by the wayside. I hate running and people ask how many times can you run from the mayhem. They say everyplace has crime and social disorder. The reality is, and I believe someone else stated this on the deck, as of today there are other cities that are much better. Financially, esthetically and socially. As long as I'm here and probably even after we move, if we choose to do so, I will still fight for this city and the one I grew up in.

Please lighten up!! It was just a silly comment!

Jim O'Bryan wrote:

lisa.shaffergill wrote: Particularly if her behavior causes you concern about our city. Did you talk to her, or just snap and post her photo?

Lisa

I did not stop.

You are right, I should have.

I should learn to take more responsibility.


.

Jim, you did nothing wrong. You are not a Social Policeman...

Jim,

With the exception of Tuesday I do not have any plans this coming week. I would be happy to hear some of you ideas (and possibly formulate some of my own.) You are correct in saying that absentee landlords need some “helpâ€Â￾. As the rest of my comments are not related to the bustling lemonade trade I will save them for a later date.

Thanks!!

Gary Rice wrote:With all of the sincerity that I possess, I offer the following thought.

I would rather have the lemonade-seller and her family as my neighbors, than anyone who does not want her around, for whatever reason.


.

I agree. The truth is, whether people see it or not, we are all one.

Gary Rice wrote:With all of the sincerity that I possess, I offer the following thought.

I would rather have the lemonade-seller and her family as my neighbors, than anyone who does not want her around, for whatever reason.

Hebrews 13.2

Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

What if she had been one of those?

Would a begging monk, having taken vows of poverty, be welcome in our town? Have we come so far in our materialistic mentality of manicured bushes and tri-tone painted homes? Do we feel so much better than our needful neighbors? Can we paint Section 8 with that broad of a brush? I think not, friends, and I know just a bit of what I write here.

As a member of the Community Development Block Grant Committee, I help to oversee a good dead of Federal fund-needs disbursement in Lakewood. There's a lot of good going on with the poor and needful in our community, and I believe that they do a great deal of good for the rest of us, as well..

As one who had to eat beans and cornbread many nights as a child, I believe that I turned out pretty well. You may, of course, disagree.

Those of you who worship at the altar of materialism, need to know this: Caskets do not come with luggage racks. One day, we will all perish no richer or poorer than the lemonade seller.

Truly, I believe that this lemonade seller has more dignity than many of the rest of us.

This has nothing to do with materialism, strangers, a begging monk or you eating beans and rice as a child. This has nothing to do with compassion or lack of compassion. This is about behavior and community standards. Some of us feel that this type of behavior (a person greater than the age of 12 but less than the age of 35 selling lemonade on a busy street corner) is not acceptable. That is it... We all have different opinions on this subject.

Stephen et al.

That is not just it. Where does this sense of entitlement come from - because someone is white and middle class they are better, cleaner, more upright and have better morals.

How dare you even think that let alone express that.

Wallk a mile in someone else's shoes and see how your feet feel.

This conversation is no place for jokes. This entire conversation has gotten obscene.

Hate me if you want - I really don't care, but right now I am quaking with anger.

Run to the western suburbs if you want, you think you can make the world go away.

How about gated communities, or border patrols that can keep out the riffraff.

The world will not make itself over in your image.

sharon kinsella wrote:Stephen et al.

That is not just it. Where does this sense of entitlement come from - because someone is white and middle class they are better, cleaner, more upright and have better morals.

How dare you even think that let alone express that.

Wallk a mile in someone else's shoes and see how your feet feel.

This conversation is no place for jokes. This entire conversation has gotten obscene.

Hate me if you want - I really don't care, but right now I am quaking with anger.

Run to the western suburbs if you want, you think you can make the world go away.

How about gated communities, or border patrols that can keep out the riffraff.

The world will not make itself over in your image.

Sharon,

"How dare you express that?" "Obscene?"

I'm quaking in my boots with what you just said. I don't care what color they are, where they came from, whether their poor as dirt or have a Ferrari in every color. I hold myself and everyone else in this city to the standards every community desires and deserves. "Walk a mile in someone else's shoes and see how your feet feel?" Well when your shoes hit my shoes and you act without moral dignity and respect for myself, I'm going to let you know about it. As for the city I live in, I'm not going to stand by and let someone act a fool because they've fallen on hard times. And do tell me what's been so obscene in this thread? Beside a couple comments that could have been construed towards racism, I've heard good thoughts and constructive criticism. You know what I find obscene...the gentlemen I've seen numerous times drinking alcohol out of a brown paper bag at the bus stop across from harry buffalos, the 25 to 50 kids that gather at madison park and beat the hell out of each other at least once a week or I could use numerous roads throughout the city (pop the scanner on for awhile and I guarantee you will hear one), the people that step in front of my car on about every road I've driven on in this city or kids that feel it necessary to ride in the middle of the road and look back at me but do not get out of the way, the people with radios so loud I can't talk to the passenger in my car, the f bomb being dropped every other word when i walk down detroit, irresponsible parents that don't control or watch their children (i.e. all over the city). Personally I don't care why the men drink from the bag, why the kid is in the middle of the street or what's caused the parents to feel it's okay to let their kids do as they feel. What I care about is that it's happening and it needs to stop period. I'm not directing this toward the young lady selling lemonade in the picture. Maybe many of these comments should have been posted elsewhere. Another thing...I'm so tired of people saying it's happening everywhere. I know it is. How about lakewood becomes the model and says NO MORE. You come here to visit or to live, you respect this town and it's resident's period. Sharon, once these people are told it's wrong what their doing, whether through a stern warning or a citation, if you see that so many of these people who are down and out need help, hand them a card and direct them where to go to seek the help they so desperatley need.

Stephen,

I appreciate your response. You might be surprised that I completely agree that this issue has integral behavioral and community standards components .

The question, in my mind, would be how best to approach any economic, racial, youth, gender, or whatever issue that might come along with all Lakewoodites?

We seem to rely on the police for so much, but as Jim has pointed out, each encounter with a citizen involves paperwork, time, and potential court appearances. Police are already doing more and more with curfew issues and other minor offenses. The dream of "Zero Tolerance" can be a nightmare for all involved. Furthermore, once a person's name is "in the system" it can become that much harder for that person to get a good job later in life, so that can slow society down too.

Would it not seem more constructive to develop interactive and proactive community conversations, rather than immediately assuming everything must be handled by the police?

Rather than looking at section 8 housing in a negative way, are there creative and visionary ways to welcome low-income people to our city with support and guidance? Section 8 is, by the way, a Federal program. It will not go away soon. Nor can the City regulate it.

Would it not be better to make section 8 recipients feel glad to be in Lakewood, and to know that there would be a network of people to whom they could turn for local assistance, as well as with community standards issues?

Groups like the Lakewood Christian Service Center, the Division of Community Development, the Division of Early Childhood, North Coast Health Center, and many other groups public and private are already assisting those in need. Churches also provide community meals and shelter for the homeless among us.

Much has been done, and there is much to do.

In closing, I recall the words from John F. Kennedy's inaugural address:

"If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich."

And by the way, beans and cornbread make a very satisfying meal, as did the vanilla wafers and peanut butter sandwiches.

Beans and rice are a Cajun meal. You'll need to ask Chef Geoff about that one!

sharon kinsella wrote:Stephen et al.

That is not just it. Where does this sense of entitlement come from - because someone is white and middle class they are better, cleaner, more upright and have better morals.

How dare you even think that let alone express that.

Wallk a mile in someone else's shoes and see how your feet feel.

This conversation is no place for jokes. This entire conversation has gotten obscene.

Hate me if you want - I really don't care, but right now I am quaking with anger.

Run to the western suburbs if you want, you think you can make the world go away.

How about gated communities, or border patrols that can keep out the riffraff.

The world will not make itself over in your image.

Where have I mentioned anything about entitlement, white middle class or etc? This is about behavior and what is acceptable behavior by the community of Lakewood. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on this subject. You seem obsessed with turning this into an issue of race and classism (not to mention an emotional debate). This is not about race. In my opinion, the issue here is about community standards , not just the white standard, not just the black standards, not just the rich standards, not just the poor standards, not just the middle class standards but all of these groups standards coming together. I am entitled to my opinion on this subject. If I chose to make light of this situation then that is my prerogative.

Gary Rice wrote:Stephen,

I appreciate your response. You might be surprised that I completely agree that this issue has integral behavioral and community standards components .

The question, in my mind, would be how best to approach any economic, racial, youth, gender, or whatever issue that might come along with all Lakewoodites?

We seem to rely on the police for so much, but as Jim has pointed out, each encounter with a citizen involves paperwork, time, and potential court appearances. Police are already doing more and more with curfew issues and other minor offenses. The dream of "Zero Tolerance" can be a nightmare for all involved. Furthermore, once a person's name is "in the system" it can become that much harder for that person to get a good job later in life, so that can slow society down too.

Would it not seem more constructive to develop interactive and proactive community conversations, rather than immediately assuming everything must be handled by the police?

Rather than looking at section 8 housing in a negative way, are there creative and visionary ways to welcome low-income people to our city with support and guidance? Section 8 is, by the way, a Federal program. It will not go away soon. Nor can the City regulate it.

Would it not be better to make section 8 recipients feel glad to be in Lakewood, and to know that there would be a network of people to whom they could turn for local assistance, as well as with community standards issues?

Groups like the Lakewood Christian Service Center, the Division of Community Development, the Division of Early Childhood, North Coast Health Center, and many other groups public and private are already assisting those in need. Churches also provide community meals and shelter for the homeless among us.

Much has been done, and there is much to do.

In closing, I recall the words from John F. Kennedy's inaugural address:

"If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich."

And by the way, beans and cornbread make a very satisfying meal, as did the vanilla wafers and peanut butter sandwiches.

Beans and rice are a Cajun meal. You'll need to ask Chef Geoff about that one!

Gary, you are correct and make a great point. Proactive is the way to go and welcoming all people is also a great way to build a stronger community. Thanks!

Stephen,

I appreciate your response. You might be surprised that I completely agree that this issue has integral behavioral and community standards components .

Gary, I knew you were a smart man!