Auto industry bailout, I vote no....

[Missy Limkemann]

sorry but after reading this...I am voting NO to this stupid bail out. (oh and my grandfather is a shop steward of a union so dont say I dont get them)
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/WallStree ... 739&page=1

GIVE UP THE PERKS YOU STUPID CEO's.....it would save you millions!!!!

[ryan costa]

what bailout terms would you find worthy or acceptable?

[Stephen Eisel]

what bailout terms would you find worthy or acceptable?

Any brewery or distiller must be saved at any cost...

[ryan costa]

what bailout terms would you find worthy or acceptable?

Any brewery or distiller must be saved at any cost...

cheers.

[Charlie Page]

what bailout terms would you find worthy or acceptable?

Any brewery or distiller must be saved at any cost...

What if that brewery or distillery paid it’s grass cutters and toilet cleaners full union wages and had a ‘jobs bank’ that only added to it’s chronic inefficiencies?

http://www.henrypayne.com/pages/articles/index.html

[Missy Limkemann]

i just dont think that any CEO should beg for money when they fly private jets and live lavish lifestyles. why should we sacrifice for them when they wont sacrifice for us or those that work for them?

[sharon kinsella]

Union wages are not the foes the greed of speculators, CEO's and Wall St. execs have bankrupted us.

[Missy Limkemann]

Union wages are not the foes the greed of speculators, CEO's and Wall St. execs have bankrupted us.

Those damn CEO's and execs are the worst!!!!
I will say the only bad thing I have against unions is the one my grandpa works with...when he was in the hospital having his quadruple by-pass people were mad because he could not be there to help their grievence and one girl yelled at him that she was more imporant than him. I pretty much told her where to go!!!! Ok that is a different rant for a different day.

[Lynn Farris]

Missy, I agree with you and with Sharon. If they didn't understand the PR aspects of this - one wonders about their marketing ability.

But I am curious if the Goldman Sach's and the AIG CEO came by private jet or commercial. Does anyone know?

We seem to have two different criteria with this decesion one for the auto industry and the other for the financial one. Both are significant industries that have tenacles that affect so many other industries. But the auto industry affects more middle class Americans rather than upper class so we won't help them? And the banking industries helps the banks but not the people that are losing their homes even by lowering the interest rates on some of these crazy loans.

I'm still not ready to lose the car industry. China won't buy the stock. Suppliers, Retirees, etc. will be out - they will buy the assets so we will be screwed. JMHO

[Missy Limkemann]

the only big problem I have is that if we bail them out, will that make them change their productions? will we be in this situation again because the super high ups are so out of touch with reality.
you now there is that show wife swap...i think we should have a CEO Swap. Make these guys live 2 weeks in a life where people struggle, work 3 jobs just to pay for food and their house. Or better yet, let them live in a homeless shelter for weeks, so they can maybe learn something.
i almost wish we could make the guys bail themselves out. take away their salaries, make them take a pay cut. but no, they will use our taxes and again screw the american people so they can fly in luxury and make a million Escalades that kill the ozone.

[Charlie Page]

CEO’s, for the most part, are some of the most intelligent people around. They have business acumen and skills far above those of the average Joe. They work 70-80 hour weeks for years on end, even before they get to CEO. Talent at this level does not grow on trees. The CEOs pay is determined by the board of directors with the input of compensation consultants, not by the CEOs themselves. Same with the ‘perks’ of corporate jets. Most big corporations require their CEO and top executives to travel by private jet as their time is valuable. Every waking moment during the typical day of a CEO is spent in countless strategy sessions or other relevant meetings. There’s no time to surf the net or chat with friends and most don’t take a typical lunch hour like the rest of us. Yeah, they may play some golf but do you really think they are talking about the big game? Or are they working on the next acquisition between strokes? Life as a CEO or other top executive isn’t all candy and nuts. If you want to swap with a CEO for two weeks, be prepared to not have much of a life outside work.

Corporate jets are equipped with all the modern conveniences of connectivity (phones, internet, some even have video conferencing capabilities). They get more work done on a private jet that most people could even dream about. Combine this with the global nature of most big corporations (even some small and medium corporations these days) and it definitely is not cheaper to fly commercial. The actual cost of a ticket to fly commercial would be cheaper but the lost productivity during the commercial flight (including waiting in lines at the airport, baggage check, etc.) is where it costs the stockholders.

Speaking of private jets, why isn’t everyone up in arms about movie stars or rock stars flying private? How much of that movie/concert ticket, DVD or CD that you buy goes toward their perks or to pay their millions? Yes they are the best at what they do, same as the CEO but in a different world.

[Bill Call]

CEO’s, for the most part, are some of the most intelligent people around. They have business acumen and skills far above those of the average Joe. They work 70-80 hour weeks for years on end, even before they get to CEO. Talent at this level does not grow on trees.

I see the truth of it. A politician honest enough to admit this truth will be burned at the stake as a heretic.

Much of what passes for reporting or analysis is scapegoating.

Years ago when a kingdom was experiencing severe social stress they initiated a "cleansing" ceremony. All of the men in kingdom would be grouped together. As the Shaman walked through the crowd the wailing and screaming would increase until it reached a cresedo. When the crescendo was reached the unlucky guy who happened to be next to the shaman was pulled out of the crowd and impaled on a stake. The nation was cleansed, the gods were appeased all was right with the world.

Our modern cleansing ceremony is a little less bloody but not much different in principle.

[Missy Limkemann]

Speaking of private jets, why isn’t everyone up in arms about movie stars or rock stars flying private? How much of that movie/concert ticket, DVD or CD that you buy goes toward their perks or to pay their millions? Yes they are the best at what they do, same as the CEO but in a different world.

Because they are not begging for my tax money.

[sharon kinsella]

Charlie - If they were the best, why are their companies in such trouble. If they were the best, why do they refuse to see that they have to sacrifice in order to save their companies.

70 to 80 hour work weeks aren't anything unusual for the American workforce at this point in time.

Many workers, in every category put in those type of hours. Heck, I've had many jobs that I worked hours like that. Sometimes it's the only way to pay the bills.

Sad thing is, now there are fewer and fewer full-time jobs being offered. Those pesky benefits like health care ya know.

They fly in private planes, their laid off workers lose their homes.

The Wall St. CEO's fly in private planes, stay in luxury hotel suites, hold meeting in resorts, the people they robbed lose their homes.

Brightest and best?

[Charlie Page]

If they were the best, why are their companies in such trouble.

The UAW and failure of the Big 3 to be nimble enough to adjust to customer demand (or refusing to adjust). The UAW contributes to the failure to be nimble to a great extent.

The Wall St. CEO's fly in private planes, stay in luxury hotel suites, hold meeting in resorts, the people they robbed lose their homes.

From a November 2005 article:

"We cannot continue to pay $65 an hour for someone to cut the grass and remain competitive."

Grass cutting is a manufacturing job?

Take grass cutting. As defined by the current United Auto Worker contract negotiated with the "Big Five" (GM, Ford, Chrysler, and top parts makers Delphi and Visteon), an auto "production worker" is a job description that covers anything from mowing grass to cleaning the toilets. In the real world, these jobs would be outsourced to $8 an hour, no-benefit wage earners, but on Planet Big Five, these jobs get the same wages as any auto line-worker: an average $26 an hour ($60,000 a year) plus benefits that bring the company's total cost per worker to a staggering $65 an hour.

But at least the grass cutters are working for their pay. The UAW contract also guarantees that 12,000 autoworkers get full wage for doing nothing. On the heels of Miller's straight-talk, the Detroit News reported that "12,000 American autoworkers, instead of bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank." These aren't jobs. And they certainly aren't being "lost" to China.

"We just go in (to Ford's Michigan Truck Plant) and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," The News quoted one UAW worker as saying. "Otherwise, I've just sat."

For Delphi, this idled labor cost $400 million in the second quarter of this year alone. Facing similar numbers until the contract's end in 2007, Delphi took refuge in bankruptcy. "The jobs bank must be eliminated," says Miller. "Paying people not to work is just not sustainable."

As the auto companies have increased productivity through automation, the UAW calculated that jobs banks would make it too expensive for automakers to close plants and lay off workers. While that plan has worked, it has severely damaged the long-term viability of the industry--and by extension, future job creation.

One blue-collar Delphi worker interviewed by the Detroit News makes $103,000 a year operating a forklift and fears the consequences if his pay is drastically reduced. But many Americans will ask how a forklift operator felt entitled to a six-figure income in the first place (according to Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average forklift operator wage in the U.S. is $26,000).

http://www.henrypayne.com/pages/articles/index.html


Grass cutters and toilet cleaners earning full union wages and benefits; getting full pay and benefits to do crossword puzzles, watch TV or sit and do nothing; a forklift operator making four times the average salary for their position. Tell me again, who's robbing who?