The Observation Deck

Mark Moran wrote:Can someone explain something to me? Somebody registers twice, three times, ten times, 72 times; registers his dog; registers a cartoon character.

Because many times those ballots are cast and counted. You should be concerned that Obama endorses and funds vote fraud. The fact that you are not illustrates that we really are two different countries, more divided now than at anytime since the civil war.

When I say I am concerned that Barack Obama calls a cop killing terrorist his friend and advisor you are left scratching your head.

Let me end with a question: What is the difference between Bill Ayers and Timothy Mcveigh? If John McCain praised Mcveigh and leading Republicans called him a "respected member of the party" what would you think?

Well, I think you're right--we live in two different worlds. And its sad. I dont care about Obama's relationship with a guy who did what he did when was Obama was eight; who was never convicted and never (that we know of) killed anyone; and who had become a respected membef of the Chicago political establishment when Obama was trying to enter it. (All of these are distinctions between McVeigh, a loser who killed hundreds and is now in jail for it). I dont care about and I dont think it says anything at all about Obama's core beliefs about America, its future, the use of violence to accomplish ends, or about terrorism.
Because Ive listened to the man speak and read what he says he does believe in. I think the worst you can say about Obama in this regard is that he is ambitious, cunning and willing to make use of connections that might help him. I think this is called being a politician.

And you, evidently, dont care about any of the concerns that I listed, or even acknowledge them as legitimate concerns even if you come to different conclusions.
So yes, I would say we live in two different worlds.

One more thing, and I swear to god Im done with this. If this issue about past associations is about character--which I agree is an important issue in choosing a political leader--wouldnt a fairer test be to look at how two candidates have conducted themselves in their private family life.

One candidate has been married to the same woman, raised two children; the other has been divorced, left a previous wife when she was disabled, and has a history as a tom cat.

But you will say... please, men are men and a man's private life is a man;s private life. Honestly, lets get on with more important things.

You see how it works? I say, please, Ayers diid what he did when Obama was eight; Ayers was a respected member of Chicago's political establlishment and, for good or ill, a respected theorist about education; Obama wanted to enter politics. So, honestly, lets admit that politicians have to deal with unsavory characters from time to time in order to get ahead. Lets get on with more important things.

Bill Call wrote:

Mark Moran wrote:Can someone explain something to me? Somebody registers twice, three times, ten times, 72 times; registers his dog; registers a cartoon character.

Because many times those ballots are cast and counted. You should be concerned that Obama endorses and funds vote fraud.

I'd say that there's a bar of evidence in that charge that hasn't been met. Obama has provided support to an ACORN subsidiary to do GOTV and voter-registration drives. There are procedures in place within ACORN to verify these and mark ones that aren't verifiable prior to submitting to the elections boards. If individuals within the organization opt to sidestep the procedures or are overwhelmed by the volume, it's not indication of endorsement by the campaign. The threshold of evidence that has yet to be crossed is that of intent to defraud the system.

Let me end with a question: What is the difference between Bill Ayers and Timothy Mcveigh? If John McCain praised Mcveigh and leading Republicans called him a "respected member of the party" what would you think?

If McVeigh had turned himself in, got let off on a technicality, and spent the next 25 years working for positive goals rather than destructive ones, I'd say at some point you have to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Strom Thurmond and Robert Byrd both became respected members of their parties despite abhorrent pasts.

The main difference is, of course, that McVeigh intended on killing as many people as he could, and the WUO maintained that they purposefully sought to avoid loss of life. That doesn't excuse the acts, but it's a significant difference between the two.

The guilt-by-association thing doesn't really register with people because the goals of the boards they worked together on were positive - reform of one of the worst school systems in the country and getting disadvantaged people more invested in public policy and solving their own problems. Regardless of a man's past, if he's in a position to help you achieve an unambigous good thing, then you don't have to endorse his political past to work together to make that happen.

Bill Call wrote: You should be concerned that Obama endorses and funds vote fraud.

When I say I am concerned that Barack Obama calls a cop killing terrorist his friend and advisor you are left scratching your head.

To quote a favorite line on Fark.com, "I see what you did there."

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10122008/ne ... 133207.htm

7-YR.-OLD GETS AN ACORN VOTE

Once again, fraudulent registration does not equal fraudulent voting. That girl is never going to cast a ballot. More fodder for hand-waving freak-out that the right's going through now, trying to justify why their candidate is going to lose in a landslide.

Brian Pedaci wrote:Once again, fraudulent registration does not equal fraudulent voting. That girl is never going to cast a ballot. More fodder for hand-waving freak-out that the right's going through now, trying to justify why their candidate is going to lose in a landslide.

So why register someone who is not going to vote? Doesnt ACORN get tax dollars?

Stephen the people doing the registering get paid that is most likely why they are registering people fraudulently. Instead of whining about Obama, who last time I checked isn't going out with clipboards signing up dead people and seven year olds, I hope that the states get to the root of the issue. I do hope that the board of elections are making sure that all of these registrations are valid before fake dogs are able to vote.

Danielle Masters wrote:Stephen the people doing the registering get paid that is most likely why they are registering people fraudulently. Instead of whining about Obama, who last time I checked isn't going out with clipboards signing up dead people and seven year olds, I hope that the states get to the root of the issue. I do hope that the board of elections are making sure that all of these registrations are valid before fake dogs are able to vote.

Who is whining? and where did I blame Obama for this 7 year old getting registered to vote???? I mentioned ACORN not Obama...

Stephen is everything always about you? The title of this thread is Obama and Acorn subject to investigation. The op-ed's I have read often times try to tie Obama directly to voter fraud and that is wrong. If you are saying that you don't think Obama is guilty of voter fraud then thanks Stephen I appreciate your honesty.

Danielle Masters wrote:Stephen is everything always about you? The title of this thread is Obama and Acorn subject to investigation. The op-ed's I have read often times try to tie Obama directly to voter fraud and that is wrong. If you are saying that you don't think Obama is guilty of voter fraud then thanks Stephen I appreciate your honesty.

yes and please re-read your own post..

Stephen the people doing the registering get paid that is most likely why they are registering people fraudulently. Instead of whining about Obama,

Ok, so you are not whining about Obama then? You don't blame him for any illegal actions that ACORN may or may not be involved in? I just want to make sure I am understanding you.

Have a good day.

Danielle Masters wrote:Ok, so you are not whining about Obama then? You don't blame him for any illegal actions that ACORN may or may not be involved in? I just want to make sure I am understanding you.

Have a good day.

Yes, ACORN is responsible for their own actions..

Glad we got that straight.