The Observation Deck

Enough bantering back and forth. I keep reading the same stuff I read a few months ago when I first started reading this LO forum.

Again I ask, do any of the candidates have the goobers to stand up and say 'yes Lakewood has a real crime problem and unless we do something now, it will get much worse'?

I said earlier on this thread (think it was this one-there are several going on with this theme) I would work with Ken W., Jeff E., and Jim O. on this issue before any of the candidates because it is only these people who seem to agree about the problem and they are the only people I've seen so far to offer a solution other than more political rhetoric and bs. Maybe they have said it and I missed it.

As others have said, Lkwd needs to get back to where it was known as the city to not screw around in because the police will catch you. Now it's known as the city where it's O.K. not to stop at stop signs, it's O.K. to not slow down in the school zones, it's O.K. to come from Dennison and rough up some kid...

I am also glad to see the change of heart with LO and talking about the crime. People need to be made aware of the crimes going on. More than the selected items shown in the Post.

When will these curfew violators be caught?

I really enjoy spirited debate. However if one of our goals is to get councilman and candidates to post and share their views, maybe we shouldn't beat them up too much when they do.

Councilman Demro has been one of the best about engaging with the public with his views. I haven't always agreed with him, but I do appreciate his willingness to enter the fray and discuss his ideas. Others are more reticent and I can see why. While I am not suggesting that we give up civic debate - heaven forbid, maybe we need to at least respect and thank those who do agree to put there ideas out there for discussion.

I have always said if you do something, you risk making a mistake or getting criticized. Doing nothing is the safer route for politicians and we have many who make a career out of doing as little as possible except for glad handing people and smiling. It is my opinion that you should try 100 different things to improve our city assuming you fail at 10% you are doing pretty well and moving the city ahead. However if you are afraid of making mistkaes 10% of the time, you don't do anything.

I do wish other councilpeople would engage more in our discussions.

I advised my family, especially my 16 year old daughter, of the new curfew requirements. Glad I read about them here.....glad I'm on Ryan's email list, because without those sources, I sure wouldn't have known.

Most citizens are law abiding. They will follow the rules (unless it's a question of speed limits, which I view as mere recommendations), but they need to know the rules. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, but notice of it is a good deterrent.

Are we gonna post fliers like we do about leaf pickup? It sure would have been nice if we could have sent a note home on the last day of school. But at least getting the word out will separate those who would obey, had they known, from those who wouldn't, no matter what.

By the way, my daughter's reaction mirrored Joe Ott's post previously..."Are they going to arrest all of us after the Ranger games?"
I told her, with a straight face, that they were converting the unused Franklin elementary as a hold facility, especially for those nights.

Jeff

Hi,
What makes anyone here think that even with a "Expand the Police" levy approved the City Administration would actually spend additional money on Police? We are all very familiar with how the Ohio lottery was going to save our schools with a huge influx of cash. It did bring in a lot of money for the schools. But the State then just dropped what they were putting into the bucket.

If our current Administration wanted to put more Police on the street they could have. They are very good at finding money when it's for something they want. Likewise, if we approve an "Expand the Police" levy, I'm sure they will gladly pull funds now going to the Police to use on their pet projects. My first guess would be on more shiny new trucks, but I'm sure there are other less visible items.

No candidate for Mayor has promised (that I know of) to work to place more Police on the streets.

Not one person here can point to ANY research that shows that curfews reduce crime.


Curfews are as effective at reducing crime as banning blue cars would be.

Whether crime is increasing in Lakewood or not, and I've yet to see hard facts to prove the case, it does not change the fact that the passage of the curfew law is nothing more than a smokescreen.

It was done to make it look like SOMETHING was being done.

Statistical analysis provides no support for the proposition that stricter curfew enforcement reduces youth crime or risk of violent fatality either absolutely or relative to adults, by location, by city, or by type of crime. Curfew enforcement generally has no discernible effect on youth crime. In those few instances where a significant effect is identified, it is more likely to be positive (that is, greater curfew enforcement is associated with higher rates of juvenile crime) than negative.

http://wcr.sonoma.edu/v1n2/males.html

David

Thats just the tip of the iceberg. All you need to do is a cursory search of Google or LexisNexis and you will find plenty of studies and research on curfews, ALL of which question their use.

So, council members, were you all deceived by the chance to make it look like you were doing something about crime or did any one of you honestly think a curfew would reduce crime?

Did any of you even briefly look at the effectiveness of curfews?

Or was it monkey see, monkey do?

Grace O'Malley wrote:Or was it monkey see, monkey do?

That's probably a good guess. Or maybe so that someone can stand up and proudly say 'yes, we have problems in Lakewood with crime and thugs, and I'm doing something about! We passed a curfew law.'

I just got a call from a good friend that has a club in town.

They have a summer of "kid friendly" events for parents and kids, or kids by themselves.

They are thinking of cancelling the entire summer of events because of this new curfew law.

The Phantasy, has events for families that start at 6 and provide live music and activities until 11. She did not want her patrons to gets arrested.

So we loose the hoops, not we take away other activities for what was it again?

I still have not heard an answer after the first post and the political verbiage.

.

No, Jim, you won't hear any more because there is NO justification for this law.

Show me the proof that curfews reduce crime.

They can't.

This law is a "feel good" law that does NOTHING to reduce crime.

Pat yourselves on the back, council members, you're doing SOMETHING about crime.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Ryan

I want parents to be responsible for their bad kids, not all of society and our police.

.

I take kids home every-night just about because their lazy parents will not come get them. If they didn't want to come pick them up - why did they let them come over in the first place. (Or at least tell them to be home before curfew). Some of the kids are great kids in-spite of bad parents.
Its like the Cowbird that leaves it young for others to raise.

Still no complete text of the ordinance?

Still no defense of it's purpose and effectiveness?

Still no plan to make parents aware of the new "law?"

I have yet to find a fellow parent who was aware of a change in the curfew in spite of the fact that the ordinance calls for the parent or guardian to be charged with a misdemeanor if a juvenile is caught out after curfew hours.

Grace O'Malley wrote:Still no complete text of the ordinance?

Still no defense of it's purpose and effectiveness?

Still no plan to make parents aware of the new "law?"

I have yet to find a fellow parent who was aware of a change in the curfew in spite of the fact that the ordinance calls for the parent or guardian to be charged with a misdemeanor if a juvenile is caught out after curfew hours.

I think it's the same as Ordinance 509.12 just with new hours.

If you feel strongly that the ordinance is not appropriate, then I believe you can always start a petition drive to get the question on the ballot.

Grace - If Cleveland has this curfew and Lakewood doesn't, what happens to the east side of Lakewood when Cleveland's kicks in? Those neighboorhood's are already stressed from the proximity. How would you solve the problem? Suzanne