The Observation Deck

michael gill wrote:A story in today's PD relates directly to this discussion.

A group of black professionals created a research foundation to look into the achievement gap and traced it to anti-education attitudes, a failure of parenting. Reaction, including from former schools ceo BBB, is mixed.

Thanks for the link -- excellent article. I think this sums it up well:

Robert L. Smith, Plain Dealer Reporter wrote:Parents who undervalue education, and a mass media that peppers youth with the quick, shallow rewards of hip-hop lifestyle, are steering alarming numbers of boys down a dead-end path,...

However, the irony here is that a lot of parents move to Lakewood because they want better schools for their kids. Perhaps the message needs to be sent that a better life doesn't just magically happen by dropping the kids off at a different school.

Interesting article in theis morning's PD
http://www.cleveland.com/education/plai ... xml&coll=2

This has been a very interesting conversation. While the issue of race and race relations is very complex, I believe the bottom line still remains what do we as residents of this wonderful city consider socially acceptable behavior. Much of the "unacceptable behavior" is NOT limited to any one race. The pop culture of today, whether it is HIP HOP, Skateboarder, Goth or any other, remains as always the ant-establishment culture of adolescents and teens. When I was a young lad here in Lakewood it was the "greasers" hanging out, bored and "causing trouble". As has been mentioned we can not be afraid to address inappropriate behavior when we see it, or even before it happens. I was recently walking down Detroit Ave. and a group of 5/6 teens(white and black) were approaching me. I heard one of the young men say "Watch this" as they approached. Before he could do or say whatever it was he intended to offend or intimidate me I simply asked, "What's going on gentlemen?" They seemed shocked and several of them simply said hello. Instantly took them out of their game and demonstrated the magic of civility and neighborly exchange. For what it is worth, if we want our children to learn what is acceptable in terms of behavior and societal norms we must engage them.

Rick Uldricks wrote:If that's the same car I'm thinking of, I call the police every time it rolls down my street.

And you should Rick. Someone needs to teach these thugs, hiphopsters, punks, or whatever you want to call them some common decency, manners, and respect for other people and property. It's apparent they aren't taught these things at home.

I think so many of these problems start at home. Kids are a reflection of the environment in which they are brought up in. Generally.

Bored? Please. Oldest excuse in the book.

I'm in Dee's camp on this one.

Someone needs to teach these thugs, hiphopsters, punks, or whatever you want to call them some common decency, manners, and respect for other people and property. It's apparent they aren't taught these things at home.

Bingo! Joe, you may choose a prize from level one.

To compete for a prize from level 2 you must identify who the "someone" is that will do the teaching.

To compete for the grand prize, you must identify how the lesson will be taught.

All kidding aside, how do we instill a sense of manners? Pride in community, respect for property? I think you have two options. One is vigilant enforcement, whereby fear of consequences results in the desired effect. The other, perhaps politically correct alternative is to address the underlying reasons for the existence of families with a disconnect from societal norms, bring them into the fold (as it were) which will in turn cause the needed skills to be taught at home. But, as I said earlier

unless we force compliance to acceptable standards of behavior, there will be no standards left to which future generations can voluntarily adhere

Jeff

Rick Uldricks wrote:However, the irony here is that a lot of parents move to Lakewood because they want better schools for their kids. Perhaps the message needs to be sent that a better life doesn't just magically happen by dropping the kids off at a different school.

Bingo.

When parents say they want to send their children to a better school I think what they mean is that they want to send their kids to a school where the other children value education.

Children are influenced more by their peers than we realize. Culture is destiny.

Here is a little thought experiment:

Move all of the teachers and buildings from a "good" school district to a "bad" school district. Does student performance in the "bad" district improve?

Move all of the teachers and buildings from a "bad" school district to a "good: school district. Does student performance in the "good" district decline?

Here is an unpleasant fact to dwell on: Nationwide just about half of all students are below average and no amount of money is going to change that.

It is good of parents to want their kids to have a "better" education.

Probably a big motivation would be parents moving from Cleveland to Lakewood to get away from their own childrens' friends or peer group and people like them.

It is good of parents to want their kids to have a "better" education.

Probably a big motivation would be parents moving from Cleveland to Lakewood to get away from their own childrens' friends or peer group and people like them.

Indeed. In fact, I doubt that the move is for a better school system, but rather, a safer one. The chaos makers we're dealing with, many times don't reside in Lakewood. They come into Lakewood because their own areas of residence are no longer safe.

Jeff

Jeff Endress wrote:Bingo! Joe, you may choose a prize from level one.

Fantastic! I've never won anything before! This is great. I knew there was a reason for staying in Lakewood.

Jeff Endress wrote:To compete for a prize from level 2 you must identify who the "someone" is that will do the teaching.

That's easy. Parents and role models. The core needs to come from the parents though. There has to be strong parental involvement and guidance and acceptance to failure - meaning don't blame the schools and government and anybody/everybody else for your failure, learn from it and move on. But as long as we have a society that produces (by supporting them monetarily) role models for kids like Snoop Dog and so on, it's going to be tough. And as long as our society doesn't stand up to Hollywood and the recording industry thugs/gangsta's/hiphopsters it'll never change. The yo-yo's in charge won't do that because they are making huge amounts of money promoting those images that kids try to emulate. They don't care about you or me or the kids.

You know, there's nothing wrong with listening to rap, hip hop, or whatever, but the parent must explain it's not ok to call your sister a hoe, it's not ok to call your mother a bitch, you are listening merely to a song sung by an image. It's not real. It's not cool. Oh, and by the way, try to emulate it and there will be consequences...

Jeff Endress wrote:To compete for the grand prize, you must identify how the lesson will be taught.

Darn. I knew this contest would get harder... I wish I knew all the answers but I don't. I don't know, maybe have everybody watch reruns of Barney?

Jeff Endress wrote: how do we instill a sense of manners? Pride in community, respect for property?

Society as a whole needs to frown upon bad behavior and not promote and glorify it. It used to be cool to smoke. It was promoted by Hollywood. Now it is publicly frowned upon. Smokers are outcasts. Why can't we do that with bad behavior? I can walk past Marc's on Detroit there where the kids gather and tell Billy Bob HipHop to pull his pants up because it's socially unacceptable but I could get shot! Why doesn't Hollywood/Music Ind promote better behavior? Why doesn't Snoop Dog promoted better behavior? Why doesn't [put role model name here]... I know why, it won't make money. It's a self perpetuating problem.

Btw, speaking of parents, why did Billy Bob HipHop's parents let him out of the house looking like that?

We can't solve it.

Jeff Endress wrote:unless we force compliance to acceptable standards of behavior, there will be no standards left to which future generations can voluntarily adhere

I agree. If it's not stopped, it becomes the norm and the standard is gone.

Now I am depressed. Think I'll go have a scotch.

ken, you stated that, "A courageous conversation about institutional racism, the crimes of the white majority, and the imposition of white guilt on civic personalities at this time may well weaken our institutions and neighborhoods in their claims to authoritative norms."

The assumptions in the above statement indicate that you are ready to equate the concept of institutional racism with white guilt and a charge of white criminal negligence. I am not ready to do so. In fact, I disagree with the notion that "white guilt" need be either a product of or influence on an examination of social norms. As a member of the majority, as Dee so provocatively pointed out, I find it disturbing that we are so hesitant to examine the role of our majority in the dynamics of social issues.

you also said, "Again, I would caution that to overplay the institutional racism element is to weaken the claim of authority that is fundamental to viable institutions."

In what way is mentioning institutional racism overplaying it? This feels a bit totalitarian to me. I believe that we should consistently question, examine, and ponder. And if an institution's claim of authority is weakend by this examination, I, in turn question the claimed viability of such an institution. Let's not turn away from an examination of assumptions for the sake of expediency.

and then this ... "Because people act on their perceptions of dis-order, the consequence is a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby all actors (not only white residents) are likely to disinvest in or move away from black or mixed areas they view as at high risk of disorder.â€Â

I'll go back to the Bridge report:

Parents who undervalue education, and a mass media that peppers youth with the quick, shallow rewards of hip-hop lifestyle, are steering alarming numbers of boys down a dead-end path, PolicyBridge contends.

The report calls for public recognition of a phenomenon crippling the black community and the civic will to fight it. It's to be released today via mailings to civic leaders and on the group's Web site, www.policy-bridge.org

.

It appears to be an interesting report.

and now for my teacher hat...


Shawn J wrote "I am happy to share my opinion but if we are really going to categorize a group of students and discuss why they are not performing as well as the rest, we have to see how bizarre if not condescending that can be. Has school really changed that much that there are not parent/teacher conferences to individualize the solution rather than opening a public forum."

I find it condescending to ignore the problem. I find it bizarre that we seem to be ok with this level of failure. If all of our girls were performing at 38% level on the state tests, the schools would haveto hire security to keep parents from storming the teachers and demanding justice.

As to how much schools have changed, they haven't much. We still teach, the kids still learn, and everything is pretty neat and orderly in the building. As a matter of fact, we just got the preliminary results back from this year's state testing indicate that we are improving on the whole. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that the test score for our black students will still be woefully behind their peers.

Is this a parenting issue? sure. Is it a teacher issue? you bet. Is it an issue for the city schools? absolutely. Is it a youth culture thing? uh-huh. What about personal responsibility? yes. But these questions are just now being asked in our district, and they need to be asked openly. The Plain Dealer article today was very timely to our discussion. If you haven't, check it out.

lastly, i never really meant for this to drift into education. it's just where i see this issue most often due to my position. i'm working with a dedicated group of teachers and administrators who are really trying to close this achievement gap. we are not ignoring this issue and i am committed to work with my peers to make sure every student gets the quality education that our school has consistently provided for decades. i apologize for muddling the neighborhood issue with the school issue. it's just hard to switch hats sometimes.

all of this during the play-offs? it's too much

[/quote] However I am very much interested in expanding the focus to all problem behaviors in Lakewood by all people, of all ages, all genders, all ethnicities. I'd like a "good neighbor" dialogue that helps adults in our neighborhoods, as well as kids in our schools.[/quote]

I have come across three families in the last year on my last street and now this street. The mothers are more interested in partying and fighting than their kids. I have opened my doors trying to provide a loving home for the kids to come, but in each of these three cases, the mothers allow their kids to play countless hours at my home. This last family has four children and a relative with two children that come every weekend. All of them end up at my house. In this case I don't even know the mother's name. When it came to a point where I had to say enough is enough, the mother remained clueless. We send them home, they come back four or five times that day.

Oh in all three cases the families are white. The epidemic of women having children that they don't want to take care of seems to be increasing. This is a problem you can't solve Tom! But lord I wish there were answers. And to know we are working two jobs three jobs between us and paying high taxes, then watching these mothers (every one of them) smoke cigarettes at $4 a pack, on their welfare check, gets beyond frustrating. This to me is not a race issue. Those kids will grow up how? They are already swearing at age six. It is depressing Joe but I hate scotch!!!

Sean:

You say you find “it disturbing that we are so hesitant to examine the role of our majority in the dynamics of social issues.â€Â

Justine Cooper wrote: In this case I don't even know the mother's name. When it came to a point where I had to say enough is enough, the mother remained clueless. We send them home, they come back four or five times that day.

"mother remained clueless" the 3 most significant words in that paragraph. It says a lot.

Justine Cooper wrote: It is depressing Joe but I hate scotch!!!

No you don't. You know you don't. Just kidding.

Joe