The Observation Deck

I might have some skill in photography but my Major is Business Administration/Marketing.

Sometimes you just have to do what you need to do to get by.

Everyone's job is important, even the drive-thru worker at the golden archs restaurant.

The fact that people are working and making the effort to be employed should be applauded.

Why does no one understand that WALMART is pathetic, not the people who work there. The company who makes money off the backs of workers that they underpay while pulling huge profits out of the company.

It is WalMart that make their benefits so expensive that their workers need to apply for food stamps and welfare. Nothing wrong with people having to apply for these things.

What is wrong is WALMART subsidizing it's bottom line by substandard benefits and wages for the hard work that these people do.

No one is saying that the WORKERS are anything other than honorable. As matter of fact, if you look back on what I've said, I'm in it for the workers.

Are you?

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/ ... tco29.html


On the other end of the spectrum, there is Costco...

Dee you said:

Lynn you pretty much validated what I said. Sure a college grad with a teachng certificate might work at WM for a while but its not permanent. And if anyone really looks at a $8/hr WM job as a replacement for a $20/hr factory job, that speaks to a bigger problem.

I dont know your recent day to day experience with entry level retail and service sector help, but that IS what I do. And I can tell you that turnover and churn are what keep me awake at night. Your $8 employee will work for you until the $9 job comes around. If you are lucky you may get a day or two notice. I wont even get into the issues related to short-term, no-committment employment, like absenteeism,theft, etc Ask any retail manager. They will tell you they worry less about customer "shrink" and more about the employees walking off with stuff. Again I ask, is THAT how you want to run your city and schools?

In any event bringing public sector jobs down to the lowest common denominator doesnt seem like a winning plan.

I'm not quite sure that we disagree about the problems it is the solution that we are far apart on unless I don't understand you.

I will agree that if you ask most people what their dream job is or what they want to be when they grow up - most won't say a Walmart sales clerk. But working for Walmart may pay the bills and keep food on the table. Do I think they may be potentially hoping for a better job in the future. Definately.

Are you saying that say an accountant for a big firm that loses his job when his firm moves to China and takes a job at Walmart to pay the mortgage and put food on the table is no longer worthy of a public sector job? A good job? That he is now the lowest common denominator?

Are we saying the 4.0 or even 3.5 urban studies college grad who is working as a waitress to pay her student loans, her mortgage and eat. while trying to find a job in NE Ohio because that is where her family is - is no longer worthy of a public sector job because she took a job as a waitress? Her dream job or at least entry dream job in which she got her degree. That she is now the lowest common denominator?

For most people in the private sector - working even with the decreases that Bill has suggested in the public sector is a dream job. Again, if I understand Bill correctly no one is suggesting minimum wage jobs. They are suggesting some realism with what the private sector is making - especially given the fact that Public sector jobs are more secure.

Yes, Sharon I agree with you. Walmart has horrible practices and I try never to shop there.

Yep, Costco is a good company and so is BJ's. I belong to BJ's and I'm very happy with them. I've talked to employees there and they feel like they are fairly compensated. I did this before I joined. Never did and never would join Sam's Club, owned by WalMart.

Wish we had a BJ's or Costco here in Lakewood.

First, let me say that Wal-Mart is not the "lowest common denominator" in my mind. Others are worse but I wont name them to preserve the dignity of those who work there.

What irritates me is the attitude that some have that holds that, rather than trying to bring private sector workers UP to what SOME public workers enjoy, what we should do is bring public employees DOWN to the WORST of the private sector. How does it help a minimum wage Wal-Mart worker if city employees get their pay cut or have their job outsourced to another minimum wage worker?
And lets be honest, not everyone in the private sector is hurting, even in Lakewood. Unless there are a lot of '83 Novas disguised as Lexus SUVs in the driveways on Edgewater.

As a former employee for the City of Lakewood and one of the many managers with a college degree who have left employment with the city, I find it funny that people are defending Wal-Mart workers while dismissing the hard work and dedication of many city workers.

My job was and currently is a complex mixture which requires me to wear many hats. An engineer, chemist, biologist, electrician, control specialist, welder, machinist, process engineer, mediator, negotiator, financial manager etc.

To throw many of us into the same category as a typical transient Wal-Mart employee degrades all we do and who we do it for.

It is true that there are dead beat slackers working for the city who abuse their sick time and work the system to their advantage. Just request the sick time usage from the city and see what department uses the most sick time and costs the city the most in overtime.

The fact remains that there are many hard working dedicated employees who would bend over backwards for the people in this city and do the best they can with what material is provided.

When city workers made less then almost everyone, no one cared. When there is a blizzard and people are working 3 shifts a day to keep the roads clear, most don't appreciate it. When you turn on your faucet, take a shower and flush the toilet most people take it for granted but there are people working 24 hours a day to make this happen.

Is it the city workers fault that "Wal-Mart Shoppers" buying goods produced by slave labor in China, Mexico and India have lost their factory jobs because of their shopping habits? Should the United States create a class of slave labor to compete or should we demand a fair wage for all those who work not only for the city but for every occupation in our country?

True the city has less population, but it is also older and requires more maintenance. Are there inefficiencies? Yes and they should be corrected.
City Stat should be fully implemented in EVERY department and those who abuse the system should be fired.

City workers do pay part of their health care premium and this portion does go up as health care costs increase.

A college degree doesn't guarantee a good worker, there are plenty of educated derelicts out there. Nor does it give one the desire to perform some of the foulest tasks in society: Picking up your garbage, treating your sewage or saving your life when you're flat lining in the back of an ambulance.

Furthermore, I don't see many city workers living on Lake, Edgewater or Clifton Park. Seems to me that if there is any anger directed toward those in society taking advantage of the system, it should be at those who fall in the standard deviations beyond the rage of average income instead of those below it.

Steve Hoffert wrote: I find it funny that people are defending Wal-Mart workers while dismissing the hard work and dedication of many city workers.

New realities.

Private sector worker=honorable
Public sector worker=parasite

Reagan started it.

Now you're all talkin!

Steve,

I hope that I didn't in any way imply that public sector work wasn't honorable - it is exceedingly honorable.

Private sector work - disappearing, income levels decreasing
Public sector work - permanent, secure, income levels steady or increasing

My reaction was to the concept that 6,000 people applying for a job at Walmart were all people that didn't really need jobs - just part time people trying to earn extra money. Many of those 6,000 people are skilled, educated, experienced and would make great employees.

Right now, I think public sector work is what many people want. In fact I would go so far as to say the supply level for public sector work with highly qualified individuals is very high and the public sector is competing with better salaries and benefits than the private sector.

Steve Hoffert wrote:It is true that there are dead beat slackers working for the city who abuse their sick time and work the system to their advantage. Just request the sick time usage from the city and see what department uses the most sick time and costs the city the most in overtime..

According to my records that would be the fire department. But everyone seems afraid to say it out loud so forget I said it.

Steve Hoffert wrote: The fact remains that there are many hard working dedicated employees who would bend over backwards for the people in this city and do the best they can with what material is provided...

I agree. The vast majority are hard working, serious people. While much of the City's financial problems can be laid at the feet of the (sshhhh) the main reason is:

Costs have increased faster than income and

The City has about 84 more full time employees than its peer Cities.

All I am saying is that their are about 150 City employees with pay and benefit packages that exceed $100,000 per year and that asking that City workers:

1. Go three years without a raise.
2. Pay 50% of the health insurance premium.
3. Replace sick time with a short and long term disability policy.

That will still leave City workers with a very generous pay and benefit package.

The new administration should:

Deal firmly with sick time abuse and overtime scams.

Eliminate 85 full time City jobs so that City staffing levels match peer City staffing levels.

If those things are done I will agree to any tax increase necessary to balance the budget. Of course if those things are done the City will have a $5 million budget surplus.

I remember reading this earlier this year and managed to find it again....

Civil servants earn an average of $12.38 an hour in benefits, about $5 an hour more than private-sector workers, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.... Only 18% of private workers now have traditional defined benefit pension plans, compared with more than 80% of government employees.... Contrary to a widely held notion, the extra government benefits aren't compensation for lower pay. Most government workers are paid more than private employees in similar jobs, and the wage gap is growing. A typical full-time state or local government worker made $78,853 in wages and benefits in the third quarter of 2006, $25,771 more than a typical private-sector worker, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reports.

This is from this USA Today article.

Public sector compensation is almost 50% higher than private sector compensation in similar jobs. Plus which, as the article points out, a lot of government pension promises are unfunded. That means, in all likelihood, more tax increases.