Chris,
Look at the bottom of the masthead of the paper, and at the bottom of this very page. I think you'll find what you're looking for.
LO Tabloid Mixing Facts With Opinions
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David Lay
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chris richards
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David Lay wrote:Chris,
Look at the bottom of the masthead of the paper, and at the bottom of this very page. I think you'll find what you're looking for.
Yes, this appears on the bottom of every LO deck page, but it is not on the LO publication... if it is, I don't see it, I have looked at several pdf editions of the paper.The views expressed in any posts on the Observation Deck are the views of the person posting them.
The Lakewood Observer does not approve of individual posts nor is the Lakewood Observer responsibe for the content in any post.
This forum is maintained, solely to provide an arena for discussion, without approval, editing or censorship by the Lakewood Observer.
Also, I never argued that the LO deck wasn't opinion. But, when reporting news stories using the LO deck, I feel that the writer's opinions should be left out of the initial post, then, as the discussion gets started the writer can input opinions.
Ken,
Thank you for your post. That was very informative.
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David Lay
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It's at the bottom of the masthead.chris richards wrote: Yes, this appears on the bottom of every LO deck page, but it is not on the LO publication... if it is, I don't see it, I have looked at several pdf editions of the paper.
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chris richards
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David Lay wrote:Chris,
Look at the bottom of the masthead of the paper, and at the bottom of this very page. I think you'll find what you're looking for.
David,The views and opinions expressed in this publication do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of the publisher and staff. We need you to get involved! If you have or know of a story, we want it!
This is all I can find on the publication itself. And I understand that. Every paper has something similar. But, there are articles in the publication filled with opinion that are not labeled as op/ed. It really wouldn't be that difficult of a change to label those articles in the future.
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Jim O'Bryan
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Cris
For what it is worth, I do not believe everything I post on the deck. At least I try to have an open mined and have changed on many items in midstride. Ivor used to run one of my quotes but has dropped it. Maybe he can find it.
I am very proud of the Observer. But only because of those that have taken part. I brag about that but in a positive way for all I hope.
Arrogant? or maybe I come off that way.
In the end I can only be me, I suck at being other people.
Thanks for jumping on board.
.
For what it is worth, I do not believe everything I post on the deck. At least I try to have an open mined and have changed on many items in midstride. Ivor used to run one of my quotes but has dropped it. Maybe he can find it.
I am very proud of the Observer. But only because of those that have taken part. I brag about that but in a positive way for all I hope.
Arrogant? or maybe I come off that way.
In the end I can only be me, I suck at being other people.
Thanks for jumping on board.
.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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Kenneth Warren
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Chris:
I write with the mission and goals of the LO in mind:
“The Lakewood Observer will capture Lakewood life in the present, imagine its promising future, and celebrate its rich urban history.â€Â
My writing is propositional. My style is my own. My bias is to frame virtue and to capture profiles of character through my own subjective powers of discernment.
I observed virtue in the Mayor’s demeanor and presentation under a stressful event, a virtue that was consonant with his own self-description and that of Mr. Lay.
Again, I can appreciate your interest in the journalistic – “who, when, where, why bit.â€Â
That’s not my interest.
While I have given you background on the contra-journalistic interests, intent and writing chops I supply, I can appreciate your objections. But I am not interested in changing my style to an objective, journalistic register.
Of course, I have no objection to you covering the next SWAT event, or whatever you wish to cover, in the objective register you deem more serviceable and more compelling than my own.
I would be delighted to yield and see you put up news for the LO.
Kenneth Warren
I write with the mission and goals of the LO in mind:
“The Lakewood Observer will capture Lakewood life in the present, imagine its promising future, and celebrate its rich urban history.â€Â
My writing is propositional. My style is my own. My bias is to frame virtue and to capture profiles of character through my own subjective powers of discernment.
I observed virtue in the Mayor’s demeanor and presentation under a stressful event, a virtue that was consonant with his own self-description and that of Mr. Lay.
Again, I can appreciate your interest in the journalistic – “who, when, where, why bit.â€Â
That’s not my interest.
While I have given you background on the contra-journalistic interests, intent and writing chops I supply, I can appreciate your objections. But I am not interested in changing my style to an objective, journalistic register.
Of course, I have no objection to you covering the next SWAT event, or whatever you wish to cover, in the objective register you deem more serviceable and more compelling than my own.
I would be delighted to yield and see you put up news for the LO.
Kenneth Warren
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The Malcolm Gladwell book The Tipping Point talks about 3 different types of people: Connectors, Salesmen, and Mavens.
Jim is all 3 of these.
I've also said Jim is one of the hardest-working people in Lakewood.
FWIW
Jim is all 3 of these.
I've also said Jim is one of the hardest-working people in Lakewood.
FWIW
New Website/Blog: dlayphoto.com
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Kenneth Warren
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Chris:
I appreciate your input and contribution to thinking critically about the LO project.
From my experience thus far, I do not believe that in the home-made world of the LO labels will work very effectively to quarantine news from opinion. Even the pros at the New York Times have been struggling with the mechanics of such a process. I don’t know if the time and attention are available to parse it.
Is this something you would like to try?
Would you be interested in going through some back issues and devising a labeling scheme?
Thus far, I don’t believe much “straight news†has been written for the Lakewood Observer, perhaps with the exception of Brian Wroten who was a journalist student at Kent and therefore interested in that register.
I think “interpretive news†might be a more apt description for what surfaces in the LO, along with the columns, etc.
Again, my bias from the outset - a bias not necessarily shared by all the founding members of the project - was that any attempt to impose guidelines, labels or claims modeled on traditional journalism would be unworkable given my assessment of the capacities and interests of the volunteers available at that time in this place.
I have proposed that the LO invite “pods†or “regimes†to self-organize their concept vehicles and contents around whatever guidelines, interests, labels, values - what have you. And that these pods or regimes be given their shot at producing the paper for specific issues or periods of time.
Kenneth Warren
I appreciate your input and contribution to thinking critically about the LO project.
From my experience thus far, I do not believe that in the home-made world of the LO labels will work very effectively to quarantine news from opinion. Even the pros at the New York Times have been struggling with the mechanics of such a process. I don’t know if the time and attention are available to parse it.
Is this something you would like to try?
Would you be interested in going through some back issues and devising a labeling scheme?
Thus far, I don’t believe much “straight news†has been written for the Lakewood Observer, perhaps with the exception of Brian Wroten who was a journalist student at Kent and therefore interested in that register.
I think “interpretive news†might be a more apt description for what surfaces in the LO, along with the columns, etc.
Again, my bias from the outset - a bias not necessarily shared by all the founding members of the project - was that any attempt to impose guidelines, labels or claims modeled on traditional journalism would be unworkable given my assessment of the capacities and interests of the volunteers available at that time in this place.
I have proposed that the LO invite “pods†or “regimes†to self-organize their concept vehicles and contents around whatever guidelines, interests, labels, values - what have you. And that these pods or regimes be given their shot at producing the paper for specific issues or periods of time.
Kenneth Warren
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Jim O'Bryan
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David Lay wrote:I've also said Jim is one of the hardest-working people in Lakewood.
FWIW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIUtYBL6o9E
Video of the hardest working man in his office.
.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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David Lay
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Leo's Casino, Cleveland - danced on a table while James Brown wailed "Gonna get on the good foot".
20 Grand, Detroit - jumped up and down to "I Feel Good" and we did!
20 Grand, Detroit - jumped up and down to "I Feel Good" and we did!
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Objective journalism? Yellow journalism?
Would that not imply that some mega-power is influencing the news articles? Or that the distinction between news and op-ed is a bit blurry?
Well, since most, if not all of the articles submitted are by private citizens, any agenda that they might bring to the table would probably be their own. I've written about 40 columns and no one has told me what to write, or paid me to take some position or other. I have had a few things changed by editing with my columns, but so few as to not be worth mentioning.
As far as writing about controversy, I've not shied from that one bit. Neither have I hesitated for a moment to bring some Lakewood shortcomings to attention. There again, I'm obviously an op-ed style of writer.
Building the brand means pointing out the warts too. How else can they be dealt with? If you have a melanoma, you don't pretend it will go away.
I do understand Chris' thinking, at least regarding the plethora of political articles that have come out recently in the LO as "news". Still, can anyone name any news source that is totally unbiased? In fact, these days it apparently does not even need to be. In the mid-eighties, they got rid of the "fairness doctrine" with broadcast media. No longer did broadcast media have to present both sides of an issue.
That's why we have those exclusively left/right radio shows. The Observer takes the opposite to the extreme. They WELCOME all comers. Remember not too long ago when Jim was trying to get the Repuppys to get on here and post? Now, they just might outnumber us pore lil' Demmies!
Chris. Sounds as if you have a lot to say. Why not try a column or too? Write about what "biased journalism" is. Write about what it is that bothers you? Maybe you could help us get better.
The big reason I think that the LO may have a bit of trouble distinguishing hard news from op-ed, is that the paper has little control of what comes in each week. I'm amazed that they have as much hard news as they do.
Maybe YOU will be that hard news guy?
Here's an opportunity.
Many of our columnists started out with concerns very similar to your own.
Would that not imply that some mega-power is influencing the news articles? Or that the distinction between news and op-ed is a bit blurry?
Well, since most, if not all of the articles submitted are by private citizens, any agenda that they might bring to the table would probably be their own. I've written about 40 columns and no one has told me what to write, or paid me to take some position or other. I have had a few things changed by editing with my columns, but so few as to not be worth mentioning.
As far as writing about controversy, I've not shied from that one bit. Neither have I hesitated for a moment to bring some Lakewood shortcomings to attention. There again, I'm obviously an op-ed style of writer.
Building the brand means pointing out the warts too. How else can they be dealt with? If you have a melanoma, you don't pretend it will go away.
I do understand Chris' thinking, at least regarding the plethora of political articles that have come out recently in the LO as "news". Still, can anyone name any news source that is totally unbiased? In fact, these days it apparently does not even need to be. In the mid-eighties, they got rid of the "fairness doctrine" with broadcast media. No longer did broadcast media have to present both sides of an issue.
That's why we have those exclusively left/right radio shows. The Observer takes the opposite to the extreme. They WELCOME all comers. Remember not too long ago when Jim was trying to get the Repuppys to get on here and post? Now, they just might outnumber us pore lil' Demmies!
Chris. Sounds as if you have a lot to say. Why not try a column or too? Write about what "biased journalism" is. Write about what it is that bothers you? Maybe you could help us get better.
The big reason I think that the LO may have a bit of trouble distinguishing hard news from op-ed, is that the paper has little control of what comes in each week. I'm amazed that they have as much hard news as they do.
Maybe YOU will be that hard news guy?
Here's an opportunity.
Many of our columnists started out with concerns very similar to your own.