The Observation Deck

sharon kinsella wrote: The other night at 2:30 in the morning I heard yelling and screaming and some of the foulest language I could imagine, mind you I have potty mouth.

I looked out the window and there were over 20 young people between the ages of 20 and 30. They were beating the crap out of each other. The first thought that popped into my head, was here is a bunch of white middle class kids, who can't hold their liquor pounding on each other. Should I call the cops. No.

Why not. Because they are kids acting stupid which is what kids do.

How many comments have been made on this forum about that behaviour from white kids. None of them had on pants that rode below their crotch. They all had on wardrobes from the Gap and Old Navy. Do we call them thugs?

Think about it.

I would have called the cops. Again, it's a question of acceptable behavior and it doesn't matter who it's from. Screaming profanity and fighting in the front yard at 2:30 in the morning is not acceptable. That is not what kids do.

There are rude people of all colors. There are also thugs, trash, and inconsiderate people of all colors. To me those terms represent behaviors, not color. While calling someone a thug or trash, etc is not the nicest way to put it, assuming that automatically means racism is jumping to assumption that isn't always true.

Jim wrote:

"Sharon, you have a heart of gold, you are a good person. This was not an attack on you but I hope a wake-up call for those that read the Deck."

OK, OK, I'm awake already.

Now let's see.....

Prejudice means to pre-judge

racism, to look down your noses at another race

A bigot is one, who is intolerant of others

I too, set up a lemonade stand on a Lakewood side street when I was a kid. I must have been about 10. Before long, some white-shirt-and-tie dude stops his car and reads me the riot act. I think he was a city man, I could go to jail for this, no license, etc...

I honestly think I wet my pants in fear. My parents were livid, and on and on and on.

And now this.

How judgmental and righteous are some of the comments coming out of the woodwork.

Just as that man did to me.

Only this time, I have a response.

The person in the picture only seems to be trying to make a little money.

It may be true that the letter of the law is not being served, but some of the comments I've been reading, disgust me to the marrow.

As Scripture says:

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Where is our mercy, exactly?

I pray for that lemonade seller, that she will have enough money for her basic needs. I pray for others who are perhaps, too blind to recognize that there but for the grace of God, go each of them.

I can only hope that we all take a moment to re-examine our consciences regarding this matter.

Sorry Jim, I am starting to feel that the 'Deck may indeed, be becoming the "evil twin" of the paper.

May God have mercy on us all.

Bryan

I am a tad overcritical on this but thought the photo was perfectly suited for this discussion. As it contained two of three major races I never thought it would go in this direction.

I used to have hotdog carts in Cleveland, partnered with the first person to bring them in. We went through many meetings to make out carts acceptable to the established businesses, especially the restaurants. In the end common sense prevailed. If we had everything a restaurant was forced to have, we could operate. We had to have full stainless steel kitchens in one central location. We had to have men's and women's bathrooms with double doors. We were inspected almost hourly it seemed. As the carts could travel on slow days, it was also deemed fair that we would not operate a cart within 100' of another restaurant that did not have the luxury of being able to move to another block. The carts also had to have hot at 112degrees and cold running water, a sink, soap, water and towels. We carried insurance as well. That was fair.

Now let's fast forward to the group selling lemonade on Mainstreet. It is cute, and some believe kids. So this becomes a perfect vehicle for the discussion. At what point do we look the other way? At what point does liability no longer matter? At what point do we allow kids to block the streets, yet complain about them blocking sidewalks and the streets? At what point do they file with the city, who I believe would have been liable? At what point does the sign have to go through review?

While it may seem over the top, it is the perfect metaphor where Lakewood is going. If we can leave race out of it for a second. Do not think of this one cart, think of one on every corner. Do not think lemonade, think hotdogs, think jewelry, think 5 course meal, think window washing.


.

Gary Rice wrote: As Scripture says:

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Where is our mercy, exactly?

I can only hope that we all take a moment to re-examine our consciences regarding this matter.

Sorry Jim, I am starting to feel that the 'Deck may indeed, be becoming the "evil twin" of the paper.

May God have mercy on us all.

Gary, I don't think anyone (at least I hope not) is saying throw the girl in prison for life over this. I think where the conversation has gone is more about social norms and allowable behaviors.

To me, this just isn't a social norm that I think should be allowed. We have current laws that prevent someone from doing what she was doing in addition to really not being very safe at all for that poor girl.

Asking the girl to do this in front of her residence and making sure she understands why she's not allowed to do it in the middle of a busy business district is showing mercy. It's giving her a life lesson on acceptable social behavior and safety.

Mercy in this case, IMHO is helping keep her safe and better understand the society she lives in.

Gary Rice wrote:Sorry Jim, I am starting to feel that the 'Deck may indeed, be becoming the "evil twin" of the paper.

May God have mercy on us all.

Gary

It is not the evil twin, they are very different creatures.

The Deck is certainly the Mosh Pit of the city. Again, I fear everyone has gone a little overboard in emotions.

Look at all of this as a learning experience. A look into Lakewood.

Where do we enforce laws, and not.

We were looking at some numbers the other night for curfew violations, how long it took an officer off the street and the cost of the violation, including possible court time. A small violation, but one on the books, and one people say is making a difference.

Where is a line drawn?

Look at the Moes sign. At what point does "making money" cross over into liability?

I cannot think of anyone more supportive of home based businesses and entrepreneurs than myself. These are legitimate questions. Like turning doubles into singles. What is the equation?

I am not asking for lemonade operators that are kids licensed. Their parents on the other hand...


.

As distasteful as it may be to some perception is reality. The perception of a number of 20-30 year old white bar patrons spilling out into street and throwing punches that someone (Sorry, I forgot who) described is totally different than the perception of the picture that Jim posted earlier this week.

Because we don't have any dry communities in Cuyahoga County that bar fight could have happened anywhere. Please tell me how many seconds it would take to remove the illegal street corner entrepreneur from a corner in Westlake, Bay Village, Rocky River, Strongsville, or Mayfield Heights?

We can open up another post somewhere on this forum to discuss human nature, racism or any other myriad of social ills however a picture is worth a thousand words and what would that picture say to anyone thinking purchasing a home and deciding if Lakewood is the place they want to make that investment

Jim,
There is frequently talk on this board about norming our city. Teaching people new to it acceptable behavior in terms of being neighborly.
You, and lots of us, ask teens in the park and around the city to tame the language. We talk to our neighbors about noise levels before we call the police, pick up trash that is not our own, and look out for other kids on our street. In my mind, talking to the lemonade stand girl falls into the same category. Particularly if her behavior causes you concern about our city. Did you talk to her, or just snap and post her photo?

lisa.shaffergill wrote: Particularly if her behavior causes you concern about our city. Did you talk to her, or just snap and post her photo?

Lisa

I did not stop.

You are right, I should have.

I should learn to take more responsibility.


.

Gary Rice wrote:Jim wrote:

"Sharon, you have a heart of gold, you are a good person. This was not an attack on you but I hope a wake-up call for those that read the Deck."

OK, OK, I'm awake already.

Now let's see.....

Prejudice means to pre-judge

racism, to look down your noses at another race

A bigot is one, who is intolerant of others

I too, set up a lemonade stand on a Lakewood side street when I was a kid. I must have been about 10. Before long, some white-shirt-and-tie dude stops his car and reads me the riot act. I think he was a city man, I could go to jail for this, no license, etc...

I honestly think I wet my pants in fear. My parents were livid, and on and on and on.

And now this.

How judgmental and righteous are some of the comments coming out of the woodwork.

Just as that man did to me.

Only this time, I have a response.

The person in the picture only seems to be trying to make a little money.

It may be true that the letter of the law is not being served, but some of the comments I've been reading, disgust me to the marrow.

As Scripture says:

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Where is our mercy, exactly?

I pray for that lemonade seller, that she will have enough money for her basic needs. I pray for others who are perhaps, too blind to recognize that there but for the grace of God, go each of them.

I can only hope that we all take a moment to re-examine our consciences regarding this matter.

Sorry Jim, I am starting to feel that the 'Deck may indeed, be becoming the "evil twin" of the paper.

May God have mercy on us all.

Gary,

I did have mercy for her by stating she needs an adult to calmly tell her it's not safe for a child to be on a busy street corner. BUT, it's perfectly acceptable to sell her product in front of her residence, aways back from the street. Does everyone here feel she's safe there? Would you let your child park themselves next to detroit and lauderdale? It's not like she's in front of a residence on a 25 mph street on the sidewalk or farther back. She's on a busy corner with people crossing the street, numerous cars turning from and onto lauderdale. That's where the accidents happen. Did you ever notice the red poles that are there to help stop any car that goes out of control from hitting people on the DQ patio? She would actually get hit before those poles. Heck if just one of the cars tires bounce up on the sidewalk, she's so close she probably would get hit by the bumper. In response to another comment you made, "How judgmental and righteous are some of the comments coming out of the woodwork." Well, sometimes you have to be judgmental. Sometimes you have to be an adult. Sometimes you have to tell people their bad.

And I don't think the "deck" is turning into the evil twin of the paper. Just because it's not all positive stories means that it's wrong. It is a good place to talk about positives but it's a great place to get discussion going about the serious issues this city is facing today. Plus it's an election year and some of the candidates are talking directly to us on here!

Where are the Kool-Aid police when you need them?

Stephen Eisel wrote:Where are the Kool-Aid police when you need them?

Why the comment stephen? I am trying to have a serious talk here. Basically about social norms and what's acceptable. I guess my point is about lack of parenting or lack of knowledge for her parents. Where all starting to be affected by people that don't know what boundaries are or just don't care. Why am I so upset? I'm a 34 year old male (8 year transplant to lakewood from the east side) who is about to marry a 34 year old female (lifelong resident of lakewood). We're planning on starting a family very soon. Right now we both agree lakewood is not the ideal place to raise children. I hate seeing any city, especially one that was so beautiful, start to fall by the wayside. I hate running and people ask how many times can you run from the mayhem. They say everyplace has crime and social disorder. The reality is, and I believe someone else stated this on the deck, as of today there are other cities that are much better. Financially, esthetically and socially. As long as I'm here and probably even after we move, if we choose to do so, I will still fight for this city and the one I grew up in.

lisa.shaffergill wrote:Jim,
There is frequently talk on this board about norming our city. Teaching people new to it acceptable behavior in terms of being neighborly.
You, and lots of us, ask teens in the park and around the city to tame the language. We talk to our neighbors about noise levels before we call the police, pick up trash that is not our own, and look out for other kids on our street. In my mind, talking to the lemonade stand girl falls into the same category. Particularly if her behavior causes you concern about our city. Did you talk to her, or just snap and post her photo?

Thank you Lisa for asking what was on my mind as I read this thread with my mouth open. I can't believe we are talking about potential homeowners not buying here or laws being broken when not one person even asked this girl to move. I am guessing she had no idea she was breaking any laws when she sat there trying to make some money! I can't believe either that this is where the fear is in "where Lakewood is going"! For God's sake there are two white pedophiles that work or have worked recently at the Dairy Mart on Madison in view of Roosevelt and we are going to worry about one girl who set up on a main street that NO ONE asked her to move from?

This is so bizzare. My first week of vacation was visiting my parents in Suffolk Va. They built a house in a new beautiful community on the water there. My dad walked me around the block showing me the houses, one each grander than the other. While his house looks like a mansion to me, his neighbor's house is twice as big. He owns a health care company and is African American. The house even bigger across the block is owned by two gay men. I was really impressed to see the diversity and acceptance there and it was a bit shocking because there seems to be such a division here or perceived line and so many stereotypes.

For the record Jim I didn't read any comments that pointed to the picture being racism but to some obvious comments. And I was shocked to see you perceive this as the beginning to the end of Lakewood as we know it, because that doesn't sound like you at all.

Dave,
I am sorry you feel that Lakewood is not the right place to raise your children. After all the beautiful places I visited these past two weeks, I was ready to come home to my old home and neighbors in Lakewood, and so were all three of my children. I love raising my children here, after moving around every few years of my childhood. I love the diversity and am thrilled my kids will be starting in one of the new beautiful schools. I love the teachers here, the library programs, the shops, the fact that all kids can fit in regardless of income or designer clothes. And I do believe we can all work together to keep it safe and thriving.

But not by worrying and focusing on the girl in this picture.

I just came home to some ENORMOUS zuccini and cucumbers in my garden!!! What street corner can I sell these on Jim without getting busted?

While Jim’s snaps of local social phenomena are intended, I believe, to provoke an examination of conditions and opinions that inform our knowledge and action with one another in the city, Lisa’s post raises a fine point about human relations.

Clearly there is need for all of us to develop the conversational skill-set, social capital and programs that can respectfully attempt to coordinate the virtue of the child’s interest in commercial relations and entrepreneurship with the community’s interest in maintaining a regulated order of appearance and distribution of goods and services on its commercial strip.

For me, like Justine, the image evokes a feeling of sadness over a child’s DIY attempt to establish commercial relations with neighbors on a sidewalk and busy street, going against the grain of customs and law.

Gary’s post brings an even deeper meaning to the picture, one that makes me ask myself these questions:

Do I consider this child useful or harmful to my interests?

Do I have the right, the intention and the means to instruct and create useful social relations with such a child?

Or conversely, do I simply call the police?

Is the solution as simple as Councilman Demro has suggested when he posts: “She violated the law by blocking the public right of way. No person is permitted to block a sidewalk, whether with their car in a driveway or a portable lemonade stand. She was clearly in violation of the law. We have specific ordinances regarding street peddling as well.

The heart of the matter speaks to what kind of city do we want to live in. Guiliani raised the quality of life by getting the car window cleaning vagrants off the streets of New York. We must do the same in Lakewood to the extent that these types of activities affect us. Zero Tolerance, its the only way to go. We have the laws, let's just enforce them.â€Â￾

As intimidating as a squeegee men in NYC could be, I always felt, when I rolled down my window and gave him a buck for his services at the corner of 96th and East River Drive, that at bottom his action sprung from an instinct for self-preservation tethered to unjust and unreasonable social relations for which there is no quick fix.

There is the horizon of historical forces and contradications that never ends.

In the Jewish mystical tradition there is a Pillar of Justice (Severity) and a Pillar of Mercy.

In making sense of behavior often bred from disorganization and poverty, whether in children or adults alike, and attempting to find the the proper calibrations of force and tolerance, it seems wise to consider carefully the qualities of each pillar.

Kenneth Warren

Justine Cooper wrote: This is so bizzare. My first week of vacation was visiting my parents in Suffolk Va. They built a house in a new beautiful community on the water there. My dad walked me around the block showing me the houses, one each grander than the other. While his house looks like a mansion to me, his neighbor's house is twice as big. He owns a health care company and is African American. The house even bigger across the block is owned by two gay men. I was really impressed to see the diversity and acceptance there and it was a bit shocking because there seems to be such a division here or perceived line and so many stereotypes.

I think the big difference in your example and here is that of social class. If all the "minorities" in Lakewood were well off and highly educated then I doubt we'd be hearing all the division.

I would stipulate that it's less about race than it is about class and income in Lakewood. Race is simply a proxy.