Keep Your Child Home From School On September 8th?

[Bill Call]

I am so disillusioned. This is Lakewood. I thought it was a progressive, idealistic community.

Progressive is the key word.

Progressives adopoted the concept "Everything within the State, nothing outside the State". At the root of Progressive thinking is the idea that human beings are worthless except for their usefulness to the State.

If the President chooses to politicize the classroom then those who oppose his politics have the duty and obligation to speak out. If any school system makes the students listen to the Presidents speech then other voices should be allowed to be heard.

If school boards are being bombarded from all sides they shouldn't blame the parents who oppose the speech or parents who support the speech. They should blame the Department of Education's efforts to politicize the classroom. Perhaps they should all send a letter to the Department and politely ask that the Department butt out.

It doesn't surprise me that "progressive, idealistic" Lakewood should seek to turn our classrooms into propaganda centers for the Supreme Ruler and exclude other voices. At the heart of liberal (progressive) thinking is an abhorence for a differing opinion.

The President is the chief magistrate and not the National School Marm. The Education Department and many in this administration would like nothing better than to establish a National Curriculum where the State determines what is tought and what is thought. It is primarily a Democratic idea but there are plenty of Republicans who think it would be swell.

Will students be made to listen? MADE to listen? Now that's a progressive idea.

Tuesday should be an interesting day. The peace of the classrooms might be interrupted by discussions, arguments and, God forbid, a differing opinion.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I am so disillusioned. This is Lakewood. I thought it was a progressive, idealistic community. Even South Carolina and North Carolina are more open minded.

Lynn

Remember the earliest days of the Observer? You know a year before it happened, when groups
from all sides of every issues were invited to help shape and form what has become this project?
All of it was based on Lakewood being open minded, progressive, intellectual, and willing
to communicate.

The simple thought was to build a device that could allow all to be empowered, and not controlled by a few.
To help market Lakewood as a safe, clean, progressive artistic and intellectually rich
community where you could allow dreams to happen, and the city would grow.

What worries me, is not the R & the D thing. That will always be what it is, as Valerie
points out. Polarized. But when you give into crazies that flood school phone lines
city hall phone lines, TV phone lines, etc. They begin to do it for any and all reasons.
While I have always meant empowerment as a way for people to be equal, and strong
enough to start programs and help others. Many think empowerment is a way to end
others rights, to change the city/country as only they see fit.

This is where I think the school has failed. Giving into to a flood of phone calls. From people
that fear our president. Which begs the question why? I can only think of one.


.

[Roy Pitchford]

What worries me, is not the R & the D thing. That will always be what it is, as Valerie points out. Polarized. But when you give into crazies that flood school phone lines city hall phone lines, TV phone lines, etc. They begin to do it for any and all reasons. While I have always meant empowerment as a way for people to be equal, and strong enough to start programs and help others. Many think empowerment is a way to end others rights, to change the city/country as only they see fit.

This is where I think the school has failed. Giving into to a flood of phone calls. From people that fear our president. Which begs the question why? I can only think of one.
.

"In republics, the great danger is, that the majority may not sufficiently respect the rights of the minority."
--James Madison, December 2, 1829--

[Charlie Page]

Frankly, I don’t know what all the fuss over a sitting president addressing our school age children for 20 or so minutes. If the message is truly to stay in school and don’t do drugs, etc, isn’t that a message worth hearing, from as many people who feel the need to convey that message?

I remember when I was in elementary school there was this presidential fitness agenda. We all had to do a certain number of pushups, situps, etc based on our grade/age. I remember thinking that if the president thinks it’s important for kids to be fit, then I should think it’s important. I took that message to heart. I can only imagine if that same fitness agenda was initiated today, there would be some fringe lunatic on the right saying there is some kind of hidden message in it OR some fringe lunatic on the left saying the president should butt out of the parenting business. The story would be carried by untold number of media looking for some shock value only to incite the same behavior we are seeing with Obama’s message. It’s crazy.

The fringe on the left and the right are controlling this country and inciting behavior that is just outrageous. I saw it since day 1 of the Bush 43 presidency and it continues today, now the fringe on the right fighting against the presidents every action. Call it payback or whatever. People need to start doing their own thinking for a change rather than let the fringe control their thinking.

It has been brought up on this thread about concerns that underprivileged children won’t hear that message if not broadcast in schools. I agree. It’s sad that those that really need to hear this message probably will not because they won’t hear it in school and don’t have access to a computer to watch on-line. And their parents probably won’t take the time to visit a library or other resource to watch on-line. It's not just about Lakewood kids either.

FWIW

[Jim DeVito]

Frankly, I don’t know what all the fuss over a sitting president addressing our school age children for 20 or so minutes. If the message is truly to stay in school and don’t do drugs, etc, isn’t that a message worth hearing, from as many people who feel the need to convey that message?

I remember when I was in elementary school there was this presidential fitness agenda. We all had to do a certain number of pushups, situps, etc based on our grade/age. I remember thinking that if the president thinks it’s important for kids to be fit, then I should think it’s important. I took that message to heart. I can only imagine if that same fitness agenda was initiated today, there would be some fringe lunatic on the right saying there is some kind of hidden message in it OR some fringe lunatic on the left saying the president should butt out of the parenting business. The story would be carried by untold number of media looking for some shock value only to incite the same behavior we are seeing with Obama’s message. It’s crazy.

The fringe on the left and the right are controlling this country and inciting behavior that is just outrageous. I saw it since day 1 of the Bush 43 presidency and it continues today, now the fringe on the right fighting against the presidents every action. Call it payback or whatever. People need to start doing their own thinking for a change rather than let the fringe control their thinking.

It has been brought up on this thread about concerns that underprivileged children won’t hear that message if not broadcast in schools. I agree. It’s sad that those that really need to hear this message probably will not because they won’t hear it in school and don’t have access to a computer to watch on-line. And their parents probably won’t take the time to visit a library or other resource to watch on-line. It's not just about Lakewood kids either.

FWIW

ding ding ding. Charlie, you win the common sense award for the thread.

Do we not have anything constructive to spend 4 pages arguing about?

[sharon kinsella]

Wow - thanks Charlie. Good post.

Colleen and all - I've never said all republicans were like that. I just said republicans. Never used the word all.

I actually have republican friends, have even stepped in to back up one or two on here.

Jim - I don't forget.

All - If you think Obama hasn't done anything re-check recaps of first one hundred days. Pick your source, there's thousands.

[David Lay]

If military recruiters are still allowed in schools, why not the President?

[Jim DeVito]

If military recruiters are still allowed in schools, why not the President?

HA Whatever Mr. "I show up out of no ware and make a good point"

[Lynn Farris]

Bill Call said:

Progressive is the key word.

Progressives adopoted the concept "Everything within the State, nothing outside the State". At the root of Progressive thinking is the idea that human beings are worthless except for their usefulness to the State.

What kool-aid are you drinking Bill? I agree with you on so many issues, normally about Lakewood, but you are so off the mark on this one it isn't even funny.

Progressive is the "new" term for "liberal". Somehow the Republicans convinced the public that "liberal" was a bad thing to be feared. I never got that. Liberal and Progressive are no more to be feared than Conservatives. I do believe Republicans are much better at staying on the talking points and working lock step together than the Democrats are. If the Dems could every stay on point and work together, the things they could do.

On a continuum, liberals/progressives do care more about their fellow man not just thinking solely about how they can enrich themselves. They do believe that a great nation is defined by how we treat the poorest of our citizens. Conservatives give welfare to the richest in our country, wall street tycoons, the oil companies, big industrial farms, whereas liberals want to feed the hungry and treat the sick.

Liberals/Progressives believe in the bill of rights, conservatives want big brother monitoring our every step in a false belief that will make us safe. Liberals/Progressives believe in diplomacy and working with other nations. Conservatives believe in pre-emptive war and love the military industrial complex. They want to do nation building throughout the world at our expense. I remember less than 10 years ago even when the Republicans were against this, before they engaged in the largest nation building efforts in the history of perhaps the world.

The odd thing though is the country has moved so far to the right that Clinton and Obama would have been good Republicans, when I was young. Now the Dems are where the Republicans were 50 years ago (when Eisenhower warned of the Military Industrial complex) and most of the Republicans are out on the fringe. We only have a few liberals left in our congress. Dennis Kucinich is one and I for one am very proud to have him representing me. But they are marginalized by the right wing media and made to look like fools. I dislike much of what President Obama is doing, because he is taking such baby steps, when we need bold action. You claiming him to be too liberal is just downright silly. I think he is way too conservative.

Your definition of Progressive is communism and no one is suggesting that in any way shape or form.

The President wants the children of the US to inspired, to work hard in school and to achieve. We gave away our manufacturing base. We can't compete with 3rd world labor, so if we want to maintain our standard of living, we have to be smarter than everyone else. Boy is that a scary message, stay in school and work hard.

Maybe it is to the rich conservatives, these uppity, lower class kids might figure out that the secret to success is education and hard work. They may take over the nation.

[Justine Cooper]

Think about the "progressive" countries who are ahead of the United States in education. Now think if their president went to address the children on the importance of education. Can you think of one country where the schools would choose to NOT show the kids the president's address to them? Lord this is the most pitiful polarized fear tactic I have ever seen. A new low. Trust me, when you work in urban education, you know far too well how many children NEED that message and may never get a positive message on education like that in their life. Pitiful.

[sharon kinsella]

Heaven forbid all the white kids see a successful, compassionate black man.

Bad black man, bad.

[Roy Pitchford]

Lynn,

I am shocked beyond words.

I am preparing a proper response, point-by-point if possible, and I plan to back things up with as ironclad a sources as I can find. That's how I try to do things. Watch for it soon.
-----------------------------------------
However, I don't believe I've given my 2 cents on the actual topic at hand, so here goes:
I have no children, school-age or otherwise, so I have no personal stake in this.

Those parent's that are concerned about what the president might say have a right for their voices to be heard. Ultimately they, not the schools and not the president, are responsible for their children's development.

[Lynn Farris]

Roy you said:

Those parent's that are concerned about what the president might say have a right for their voices to be heard. Ultimately they, not the schools and not the president, are responsible for their children's development.

Didn't I suggest that we follow South Carolina and North Carolina in allowing parents to sign a form for their children to opt out? I am for parent's rights. But I do think this is crazy. If I don't like the principal of the school, should I be allowed to ban him from speaking to my child? Or the Mayor? Or what about members of the Board of Education? Our children meet everyday with a variety of people and one thing education should do is allow them to make decisions on what is right and wrong. Perhaps you feel you can trust the principal of the school, but the President of the U.S. and the Leader of the Free World is too dangerous to talk for 20 minutes to your child about staying in school and working hard.

Don't deprive the children of our nation of an inspirational message, because there are a few wing nuts and racists running around. Allow them to "protect" their children and let the rest of the children hear the important message of staying in school and working hard.

[Bill Call]

On a continuum, liberals/progressives do care more about their fellow man not just thinking solely about how they can enrich themselves. They do believe that a great nation is defined by how we treat the poorest of our citizens. Conservatives give welfare to the richest in our country, wall street tycoons, the oil companies, big industrial farms, whereas liberals want to feed the hungry and treat the sick.

Apparently, Obama will change his address from one concentrating on lesson plans about "helping the President" to the more benign go to school, stay in school. So the publicity about this subject had some positive affect. Hopefully school board members will apply some pressure on those idiots at the Department of Education to butt out.

Liberals hijacked the term liberal back in the early 1900's. It use to mean free minds and free markets, individual rights, individual values, individual freedom and personal and economic growth.

In the traditional sense I am a liberal.

The liberals of today are more closely related to the early progressive/fascist movement. Your average progressive saw all those millions of people working, studying, saving, investing, inventing, growing and improving without the guiding hand of government. They were outraged. They thought "Certainly, there must be some higher purpopse and if the people cannot see it they will be made to see it".

Modern liberal policies turn people into the pets of the State. Well fed, obedient and properly grateful. You may think that helps the poor, I do not.

Did you every wonder why liberals are so contemptuous of places like Israel, South Korea, Chile, and Poland and so fond of Cuba, North Korea, Nicaragua and the old Soviet Union?

I suppose some people are upset that some people are upset. Personally, I think its great. People questioning the concept of the President As School Marm, debating the federal role in education and thinking different thoughts. I especially like the thought of all those liberals who are outraged, OUTRAGED that someone dares to disagree.

Liberals, in the modern sense, are outraged because "The people don't understand!" I'm sure they wish they could make us understand.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Bill

Bill

Bill

First let not forget when Bush 41 addressed the students and ask for the help, they
turned to America and ask for their help. Are you saying it is wrong for the President to address
students, or ask for help? Are you saying the president or for that matter NO ELECTED
OFFICIAL should ever speak to students, and at the end ask for their help to keep the county,
city, state, country better?

Do you personally believe that was some strange brainwashing technique being used to MAKE
these poor little children grow up, liberal, progressive, anti-freedom, or as you like to brand
everyone on the Deck a FASCIST?

While you seemed to have nailed the Conservative definition of Liberal, I would say what
strikes me most about liverals is their willingness to discuss. Please note I said discuss, not
reason. It has nothing to do with the actual process of critical thought. However those willing
to discuss would seem to have a slighter better chance of "enlightenment" then those not
willing to discuss. Free thinkers, yes, Free trade???? Never heard that though it could be
at least with some.


FWIW