Smoking Ban's Effect on Lakewood Eatery
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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Ryan Salo
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- Location: Lakewood
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ryan costa
- Posts: 2486
- Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:31 pm
banned
A ban on smoking has nothing to do with socialism or capitalism.
It has to do with societal norms people feel strongly enough to vote to keep legal or illegal.
Tobacco is Legal. Marijuana is illegal. Having Paris Hilton host award shows aimed at minors is legal. Prostitution is illegal. What is Legal?
It has to do with societal norms people feel strongly enough to vote to keep legal or illegal.
Tobacco is Legal. Marijuana is illegal. Having Paris Hilton host award shows aimed at minors is legal. Prostitution is illegal. What is Legal?
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Bryan Schwegler
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- Location: Lakewood
Ryan Salo wrote:BTW, totally off topic. Are all the clocks in my house wrong or is this site off by an hour?
Go into your profile and make sure your time zone is set to GMT -5. That should fix it.
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Ryan Salo
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- Location: Lakewood
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Kirt Tompkins
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- Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:31 pm
- Location: Rocky River
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Charyn Compeau
- Posts: 324
- Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:11 pm
Kirt:
Bryan has addressed your points well enough so I wont bother with that at this time; however, I just want to say that I resent the implication that I am throwing out scientific information that I do not understand.
My husband is a degreed chemist and I am a degreed statistician.
Pretty sure we 'get' it.
Also regarding the *quality* of information - I went to the surgeon general's for information - largely because I dont trust the Lung Assoc or the Tobacco industry to present (online at least) all of the information I would require to assess the information. Their links, like yours, while interesting, are to sites that are clearly in place to advance an agenda with or without regard to the scientific method.
Similarly, it is difficult to find objective studies regarding economic impact; however, I believe the University of Chicago has done a number of them for both local and regional impact. The links are not on this machine; however, if you look I am sure you can find them.
Regards.
Charyn
Bryan has addressed your points well enough so I wont bother with that at this time; however, I just want to say that I resent the implication that I am throwing out scientific information that I do not understand.
My husband is a degreed chemist and I am a degreed statistician.
Pretty sure we 'get' it.
Also regarding the *quality* of information - I went to the surgeon general's for information - largely because I dont trust the Lung Assoc or the Tobacco industry to present (online at least) all of the information I would require to assess the information. Their links, like yours, while interesting, are to sites that are clearly in place to advance an agenda with or without regard to the scientific method.
Similarly, it is difficult to find objective studies regarding economic impact; however, I believe the University of Chicago has done a number of them for both local and regional impact. The links are not on this machine; however, if you look I am sure you can find them.
Regards.
Charyn
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DougHuntingdon
- Posts: 527
- Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:29 pm
Sometimes the time is off by an hour for me, too, even though I have previously gone into my settings...only thing that drives me crazy about this site. At least the format is still a lot better than LakewoodInsect.
Charyn...next thing you know, they will say that alcohol does not make you drunk
Doug
Charyn...next thing you know, they will say that alcohol does not make you drunk
Doug
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Bill Davis
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:28 pm
Brian and Kirt:
Just something to stir the pot...
In the talk about smoking and business models, here is a true, real world business story:
About five years ago, Carnival Cruise Lines, "due to popular demand," launched the Carnival Paradise, the first totally smoke-free cruise ship. Under much fanfare, they declared that anyone onboard caught smoking would be put off the ship at the next port. Non-smokers rejoiced!
After about three years, the policy was abandoned. Why? They lost money. The ship was sailing half full. The bars and the casino, the ship's major profit centers, were dead. They didn't even come close to breaking even. The stockholders demanded change.
In defense of the cruise industry, smoking has been pretty well segregated. A choice of smoking and non-smoking bars & lounges, no smoking in any food venues, and smokers only on one side of the open decks. This practice is pretty universal. Both sides are generally happy.
Cruise lines and Lakewood bars have something in common in that they are both in the "hospitality business". One might be a billion dollar industry, verses a thousand dollar business, but they both make most of their money on booze, not food.
I guess my bottom line is, as long as tobacco is legal, have smoking and non-smoking venues available and let the people make the choice. Not the government.
Just something to stir the pot...
In the talk about smoking and business models, here is a true, real world business story:
About five years ago, Carnival Cruise Lines, "due to popular demand," launched the Carnival Paradise, the first totally smoke-free cruise ship. Under much fanfare, they declared that anyone onboard caught smoking would be put off the ship at the next port. Non-smokers rejoiced!
After about three years, the policy was abandoned. Why? They lost money. The ship was sailing half full. The bars and the casino, the ship's major profit centers, were dead. They didn't even come close to breaking even. The stockholders demanded change.
In defense of the cruise industry, smoking has been pretty well segregated. A choice of smoking and non-smoking bars & lounges, no smoking in any food venues, and smokers only on one side of the open decks. This practice is pretty universal. Both sides are generally happy.
Cruise lines and Lakewood bars have something in common in that they are both in the "hospitality business". One might be a billion dollar industry, verses a thousand dollar business, but they both make most of their money on booze, not food.
I guess my bottom line is, as long as tobacco is legal, have smoking and non-smoking venues available and let the people make the choice. Not the government.
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Bryan Schwegler
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:23 pm
- Location: Lakewood
Bill Davis wrote:Brian and Kirt:
Just something to stir the pot...
In the talk about smoking and business models, here is a true, real world business story:
About five years ago, Carnival Cruise Lines, "due to popular demand," launched the Carnival Paradise, the first totally smoke-free cruise ship. Under much fanfare, they declared that anyone onboard caught smoking would be put off the ship at the next port. Non-smokers rejoiced!
After about three years, the policy was abandoned. Why? They lost money. The ship was sailing half full. The bars and the casino, the ship's major profit centers, were dead. They didn't even come close to breaking even. The stockholders demanded change.
In defense of the cruise industry, smoking has been pretty well segregated. A choice of smoking and non-smoking bars & lounges, no smoking in any food venues, and smokers only on one side of the open decks. This practice is pretty universal. Both sides are generally happy.
Cruise lines and Lakewood bars have something in common in that they are both in the "hospitality business". One might be a billion dollar industry, verses a thousand dollar business, but they both make most of their money on booze, not food.
I guess my bottom line is, as long as tobacco is legal, have smoking and non-smoking venues available and let the people make the choice. Not the government.
Bill that's not a good analogy for a state-wide smoking ban. The cruise ship analogy to me is more similar to a Lakewood-only ban (which I was against BTW) in that it was very easy for people to choose a "smoking" ship.
In reality, unless you live on the border, a state-wide ban levels the playing field since in theory everywhere is non-smoking. I don't know many people here that would drive 3 hours just to cross state lines for a bar where you can smoke.
