Walk Aways

Ryan Salo · Post by **Ryan Salo** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:13 pm

Sharon,

I was responding to Justine about people that do nothing to try to get out and just walk. There are consequences for actions. Read the Bible, it is full of consequences. I am not judging people's hearts or feelings I am saying if you committed to something throw a freaking for sale sign out so you can say you at least tried.

Read the beginning of this thread, I am talking about one segment, which seems to be a growing segment, of the homeowners. Those that know better and do nothing but walk.

Sharon, I am trying to stay on topic so please do the same.

Valerie Molinski · Post by **Valerie Molinski** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:15 pm

sharon kinsella wrote:You know Ryan I am really upset with you and very disappointed. I am not a christian but you say you are and I don't see very much compassion in what you've been posting here. I don't want to do an attack but I really am very disappointed. I would expect from some, but not you.

Not for nothing, but last time I checked being christian was not a prerequiste for being a compassionate person.

Anyway, I don't feel a lot of these people should get bailed out either. Most of the people affected by this nightmare of the sub prime loan debacle are people with second and third homes bought on speculation to flip, with nothing down, and should have never gotten mortgages on these homes to begin with. Most of the people losing their shirts took a risk with shady lending that they knew deep down wasnt kosher and went through with it anyway.

Unfortunately, this will all have a trickle down effect- loans for good people will be harder to get, people are losing their jobs in the home building industry which then causes issues in the total economy, out of work people are not buying goods and services so other people in other sectors lose their jobs...everyone's house gets foreclosed upon, the house in foreclosure down the street brings down all of the comps in the whole neighborhood... it goes on and on. EVERYONE becomes affected by people walking away from their mortgages like this.

Speaking of people who upset me...have you seen this blog?

http://justnesting.blogspot.com

Long story short, she and her husband were already carrying 3 mortgages and they took on 2 more to buy 2 houses and flip them. They financed their renovations with multiple HELOCs and convenience checks from her credit cards. She also did all kinds of crazy things with the flip, like putting expensive Pottery Barn curtains and stuff from Restoration Hardware in the house. Now the real estate market has tanked and they can't sell either of the 2 houses, or their own house, and are getting dangerously close to being bankrupt and losing their home.

Oh, and she's also trying to get pregnant, even though she barely has the money to pay her electricity bill.

In her latest entry, she's blaming the lenders who gave her all this money for the financial mess she's in. But she didn't get any subprime mortgages, and she's an accountant. She knew the big risk she was taking - everything hinged on being able to sell those houses. It's people like this that I think should NOT be bailed out by the government.

Justine Cooper · Post by **Justine Cooper** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:28 pm

Ryan Salo wrote:
Justine Cooper wrote:Taft did everything he could to protect the mortgage industry, NOT the homeowners!
Lets stop lowering the bar for people based on emotions...the victim card is getting old and hurting our great country.

That is the biggest crock I have read on this subject. What bar are we lowering really? Did borrowers do this all on their own or did this great country allow it? Based on emotions. You mean like the emotion that started this thread, your own pity for your own home without looking at the bigger picture. At least we have our homes. Look around, that is more than what many others have.

Taft left this state a MESS in more ways than the mortgage crisis. So when was the last time you visited a Cleveland school? Or sat down with a parent whose child has lead poisoning watching Taft protect the paint companies on his way out of office? All he had to do was hold them accountable to help clean up some lead! THere is proof that these companies knew the lead was hurting and killing children years ago, much like the tobacco companies hid the memos about tobacco being addictive and killing. But hey it is just innocent children so let's give Taft a break and focus all our judgment and anger at a homeowner next door to you that we know nothing about. And that gets us where?

Justine Cooper · Post by **Justine Cooper** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:42 pm

Valerie Molinski wrote: Not for nothing, but last time I checked being christian was not a prerequiste for being a compassionate person.

Haha I won't comment on that one. It is supposed to be a prerequesit isn't it? The fact that it isn't says a lot. But that is a whole other subject.

Your post is true. There are a lot of people who really benefited from the housing market being so attainable for so many people and the economy boomed with it! But it was built on a house of cards and yes we are all the ones who will pay now. This is not about emotions. Every situation was different. There really were uneducated minority or inner city homeowners who got duped-I saw it happen. And there really are greedy indulgent suburban people who overindulged and now are paying the price. But there were also mortgage companies that ANYONE was allowed to open with NO formal schooling and NO ONE watching them. Could something different have been done with legislation? Hell yes. To teach a child today you have to be "Highly Qualified" with a Master's Degree. Good. To deal with a person's biggest financial investment you need a high school degree? Oh no, not even that. In the end it affects us all and finding solutions is something that should be feverishly explored, more than blame. But like Charyn stated earlier, people trusted the "experts" when they refinanced their home. Some were duped, some were greedy, results the same. Our home is now worth less.

Paul Schrimpf · Post by **Paul Schrimpf** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:44 pm

Two Questions:

Did anyone learn anything truly useful reading this?

Did anyone change or soften their positions on the subject after reading this?

LO often does a lot of good, but this is right here is the ugly underbelly of message boards. Four Web pages of finger pointing.

sharon kinsella · Post by **sharon kinsella** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:45 pm

Hey Ryan -

Bible-

Judge non lest ye be judged.

New Testament -

Those that are without sin cast the first stone.

Selective quoting, maybe.

On topic - yep I'm right on topic. You started this thread with your presumptions of what was in peoples hearts, not me.

I'm totally appalled at the attitude of many people on here that show no regard of their fellow human beings.

Valerie - No, being a christian is not a prerequisite to being compassionate. OBVIOUSLY.

Valerie Molinski · Post by **Valerie Molinski** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:47 pm

I do agree with you, Justine, to an extent. The brokers got their fees and walked away. That is all they cared about. They got paid, done. So, of course they are going to do their best to make the transaction happen. And they are long gone when the poo hits the fan.

Justine Cooper · Post by **Justine Cooper** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:49 pm

Paul Schrimpf wrote:Two Questions:

Did anyone learn anything truly useful reading this?

Did anyone change or soften their positions on the subject after reading this?

LO often does a lot of good, but this is right here is the ugly underbelly of message boards. Four Web pages of finger pointing.

No. Not softened any position. But even in debating it is worthy to hear the other opinion. The original question of what can be done. Is there any solution in a community to take control with these homes before they devalue every other home or are we helpless?

Valerie Molinski · Post by **Valerie Molinski** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:53 pm

Paul Schrimpf wrote:Two Questions:

Did anyone learn anything truly useful reading this?

Did anyone change or soften their positions on the subject after reading this?

LO often does a lot of good, but this is right here is the ugly underbelly of message boards. Four Web pages of finger pointing.

Probably not, but what is wrong with having an [intelligent?] discourse and discussion. I personally like reading these types of threads and hearing other sides. Some things have been brought up that I may not have thought about. Keep on keeping on, I say!

Justine Cooper · Post by **Justine Cooper** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:54 pm

Valerie Molinski wrote:I do agree with you, Justine, to an extent. The brokers got their fees and walked away. That is all they cared about. They got paid, done. So, of course they are going to do their best to make the transaction happen. And they are long gone when the poo hits the fan.

I wonder though, if a study was done, where some of those brokers are? The ones who did not have formal education and were making big bucks for awhile? If they bought homes, they would lose theirs too I guess. The whole availability to buy a home put SO many in jobs, even Home Depot was busier than anywhere else! The fallout is so much more than our homes. Many will be out of jobs now, that were in thriving businesses, from title companies, to appraisers, to builders, to contractors, to brokers and banks (look at all those layoffs), to real estate agents! The fallout will be bigger than any of us know. And it really is everywhere. I have family all around the country and in VA they can't sell homes, in CA the fallout hit last but they are hurting, in FLA it hit. It is only going to be worse here because we don't have the industry to attract new people here to buy houses.

Scott Meeson · Post by **Scott Meeson** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:16 pm

Center for Responsible Lending

http://www.responsiblelending.org/

The Center for Economic and Policy Research

http://www.cepr.net/component/option,co ... Itemid,22/

Ryan Salo · Post by **Ryan Salo** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:37 pm

From my experience a lot of the get rich quick brokers with no ethics or morals got out of the industry 1.5-2 years ago when the rates started going up and then a lot more got out last January when the subprime market pretty much disappeared. They hurt a lot of people and I am glad that they are gone.

I am still amazed, but I guess I shouldn't be, when I hear people question people's compassion based on governmental involvement. Apparently the only group that can fix problems is the government so if you are for limited services you are not compassionate. Maybe, just maybe there are other vehicles to get the same things done. I believe strongly in private non profits and churches stepping in to help the less fortunate. My family and I participates in a lot of such activities.

I am not for the government handing out free passes to people who got themselves into trouble. Should we as individuals work together to help people that have lost homes or are hungry? Absolutely. That is a separate issue, it is just unfortunate that so many "open minded" people cant see out of their boxes.

The government is not the only solution...

Bill Call · Post by **Bill Call** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:14 pm

Justine Cooper wrote:I have family all around the country and in VA they can't sell homes, in CA the fallout hit last but they are hurting, in FLA it hit. It is only going to be worse here because we don't have the industry to attract new people here to buy houses.

They can sell their house if they are willing to sell it for the current market value. (Maybe not, see:

http://www.charlotte.com/local/story/397430.html)

If a home in California or Florida was worth $150,000 four years ago and it was worth $295,000 last year what has the owner lost if the current market value is $200,00?

I recently talked to a man who was very upset that his Florida home only sold for $300,000 when it was "worth" over $400,000. I asked when he bought and how much he paid. His answer: Five years ago for $200,000.
I guess this is the modern American version of financial tragedy.

The best solution is for the government to let people lose their homes, let other people buy those homes and quit trying to prop up an insane housing market. There is no reason for real estate to appreciates 10% per year and no... those houses in Slovak Village were never worth $95,000.

People who bought a house during the last few years are going to lose money if they must sell. That's too bad but it's not the governments job to see to it that people never lose money. One the other hand if that is the governments job I want a piece of the action.

One other thing...

Those insane housing values are the financial drivers behind the growth of the exurbs. To the extent that the government subsidizes the housing market it is subsidizing the destruction of communities like Lakewood. I am a little offended that the government wants to destroy my community and a lot offended that I am asked to pay for it.

Justine Cooper · Post by **Justine Cooper** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:15 pm

Where did you read that anyone said only the government should be helping people? I am not even advocating for help now, so much as saying something should have been done at the beginning of the crisis, not the end. The reactionary laws don't impress me as much as the thought of what could have been done before it got this bad. Legislation could have provided some help, just as legislation provides attorneys and accountants to have degrees and pass tests as they are dealing with people's money. Even real estate agents have to have classes to sell houses and learn the laws. That was not mandated for mortgage brokers and it should have been before all ethics went to hell for many. And you, Ryan, an ethical loan officer will no doubt be effected by the slimy uneducated, unethical ones.

Ryan Salo · Post by **Ryan Salo** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Just an FYI Justine, loan officers not employed by banks must be licensed by the state of Ohio to do loans in Ohio. This has been the case since 2002. There is a test that must be taken and classes offered to help people pass. Then we must take 6 hours of continuing education every year. I would be open to more hours being required and a yearly test but all the tests in the world will not keep dishonest people from lying. Consumers really just need to get a couple quotes, most do. The other thing these tests won't stop is dishonest customers who lie and falsify documents.

Hope this information helps, just wanted to make sure you were educated on the topic.

Walk Aways

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