The Observation Deck

Everything in this thread and in others is not about race, it is about behavior.

We need to focus on behavior regardless of color, and how they come to live in a house.

At the same time we must focus on clean and safe and how we can pay for that. While not losing services.

Good points!

Sorry to all who think this discussion is not about race.

It is, but that's not all that it's about.

It's about stereotypical prejudice. That's one of the worst kind of prejudicial behaviors of all, as far as I'm concerned.

It's all the worse, because its perpetrators self-righteously deny, (as perpetrators usually seem to do), any complicity in wrong-doing.

Having speech, orthopedic and hearing difficulties early on, I learned all about human perceptions and stereotypical prejudice, while going through Lakewood schools. Now I'm having to see it play out all over again on this 'Deck.

Prejudice is not defined by the perpetrators, but rather, by those affected.

First of all, how DARE anyone criticize someone for baggy pants or types of clothing? Or their legal behaviors? That is simply none of your affair. Period.

Secondly, as has been said, there are serious laws regarding discrimination that will get you in very serious trouble if you in some way, discriminate against someone, particularly if they want to rent from you.

Some of you remind me of those who, in the 1960's, denied that they were racists while at the same time spouted their venomous euphemistic phrases with sanctimonious smiles in defense of "law and order".

If you, who would sweep this topic under a rug, think for one minute that you're solving one problem by pretending that a far bigger issue will go away, you have another thought coming.

Then you are indeed the problem;

Not some child on the street with baggy pants.

You.

Gary-

It's a difficult subject. The miscreants in my neighborhood are white.

The Arab families or the black neighbors aren't an issue.

There are a lot of code words flying around, but the bottom line is that we have behavior problems that are not lawful and we need to deal with the (as Kenneth Warren calls them) "chaos makers".

Please don't paint everyone who talks about enforcing the law or bad behavior as racist. It simply isn't so.

Some of you remind me of those who, in the 1960's, denied that they were racists while at the same time spouted their venomous euphemistic phrases with sanctimonious smiles in defense of "law and order".

The issues facing Lakewood are not about race. Nobody is denying that racism exist. A lot has changed since the 1960's. We can all drink from the same drinking fountain now. Black people can now assemble with out the threat of having water hoses or dogs turned on them. We have a black Supreme Court Justice. We have black Mayors. We have black congressmen and women. We have a black man running for president. We still have a lot of work to do. But, let me know when you see one of us turning a hose on a group of blacks or force a person of color to sit on the back of the bus or actually discriminate against a person of color. Writing words on a board is only thought being put to words on the internet.. I do not want George Bush policing my phone calls or you policing my thoughts.. Thanks! This is just a forum



PS Gary, you are a good guy with a lot of passion and compassion...

Gary Rice wrote:Prejudice is not defined by the perpetrators, but rather, by those affected.

I normally hold back but....

That's complete nonsense. If it weren't then you would have to agree with me when I accuse you of racism because I think your attitude is racist. Round and round and round and round.

The issue here is class and culture and behavior and deportment (I wish they would teach that again.)

And fear.

And it is not fear of that Albanian down the street or that Nigerian across the way. I can afford to live pretty much wherever I want and I am staying put. If I wanted Monochromadia I would live in Avon Lake.

It is a fear of a decline in civility, a decline in standards of behavior, a decline in schools, a dcline in civic beauty and civic virtue, a decline in property values and a sense of unease about the future and disappointment in opportunities lost.

For the record, it is not just about Lakewood, it is about Northeastern Ohio and about the nation.

We can't do anything about the last two but we do have some control over the first. I hope that one of the three people running for Mayor begin to think about a real housing policy.

When you accept the unacceptable you are not being open minded you are being cowardly. Rather than fight for what is right and noble and good you just give up and say: All behavior is right and normal and good!

It is right and healthy that Lakewood is an economically diverse community but it won't stay that way if other communities use Lakewood as a place to placate their conscious from the comfort of their pews in the outer spaces.

Did I just see BILL CALL accuse GARY RICE of being racist?

Hey Bill, go chase some more graffiti artists and "thugs" down wyandotte with the other unhappy residents that spoil this board every day. Make a stop over on Baxterly while you're at it so that we don't have to quiver from fear.

Sorry I don't have a link from the PD to support this post.

I don't let the stuff I read from there get to me. If my property value declines here, I'll just move to some of my other pieces of land I own across the globe. Where people take everything they have as a blessing and don't complain about their neighbors trash or a 12 inch spray paint mark on the other side of the city.

Did I just read BILL CALL accuse GARY RICE of being racist?

No, he was just making a point. (I think)

Ivor Karabatkovic wrote: Hey Bill, go chase some more graffiti artists and "thugs" down wyandotte with the other unhappy residents that spoil this board every day. Make a stop over on Baxterly while you're at it so that we don't have to quiver from fear.

Ivor Karabatkovic wrote:Who are you to judge the life I live? I know I'm not perfect and I don't live to be. But before you start pointing fingers, make sure your hands are clean.

These are not consistent statements.

I think the owners of the LO should start an entirely separate Forum on the Deck to hold the ongoing discussion of renters, absentee landlords, Section 8, CMHA housing, subsidized housing, etc. Bill's original post asked "anyone hear of this?" and 4 pages later it is the usual "but renters are making this city horrible!" and "no, they aren't!" arguments. Sheesh. I was hoping someone would post on the Avon Lake church thing at least a little bit.

For example, this seems like the kind of program the more conservative posters would like. Why? It isn't an ongoing subsidy! It doesn't last forever! If the person gets a job and can start paying for themselves, great! If not, see you later because good luck getting subsidized vouchers at this point.

It also sounds like it is a program that has an "all in one" mentality. Some programs help only with housing and others only with jobs but it is nice to see a group of people trying to do both. Maybe with some constructive criticism, we could influence this church to educate tenants in some of the other fine points of apartment renting, namely being aware of one's neighbors. Bill Call...well...called for such education...on page 4, somewhere...so maybe this would be the place to get it out there.

Dang, people. Instead of griping about it, you have a perfect opportunity to maybe have an impact on one small program. Let's get some contact information and go with it. Anyone get that and I will be glad to call them (I have a call in to the Lutheran Ministries folks to talk about the Hidden Village program, too).

These are our neighbors. They came to us under hardship. If anyone on here has ever asked for help...and I mean serious help...you know how tough that can be. Have you ever borrowed money from a friend or family member? Lots of money? Was it easy? This isn't someone helping you move one weekend or having to owe someone for dinner. This is life-changing and here we have a program willing to do more than most housing programs do and we want to spit on them because of what we assume might be the behavior of the neighbors. Have they even moved in yet, Bill? Sounds like they are going to be. Yet the LO has, again, pasted these tenants with "trouble" stamps and off to the races as the thread gets up in numbers forgetting what the original question was even about.

It was a good question, Bill. Too bad we all let it get away from us.

Really?

I don't see the contributions that are being made of posting links from the PD or anywhere else talking about crime, bad landlords, thugs and inner city schools and how everything is affecting the youth of Lakewood negatively are making to this forum. It's just spreading more and more negativity and fear within this city. The very fear that Bill Call talks about in his post above.

It is a fear of a decline in civility, a decline in standards of behavior, a decline in schools, a dcline in civic beauty and civic virtue, a decline in property values and a sense of unease about the future and disappointment in opportunities lost.

But I do see the positive effects of what I and a few others, Gary Rice included, contribute to the post and community. In the end I hope we can all agree to disagree and that will be the end of it, but hearing this stuff day after day gets to me.

Lakewood isn't a bad place. it's not a breeding ground for criminals and injustice, and our schools quality won't decline.

I on the other hand believe in fundraising for the Lakewood High School athletic programs, where I provided some positive news when I raised $1500 in funds in three days with my work. Or the fact that I am getting Cleveland Indians Charities involved with Lakewood Baseball in August, or the fact that I never got a parking, speeding ticket or made any kind of violation that hurt my city and home and neighbors.

My hands are pretty clean, and what you believe is entirely up to you.

But I stick to my belief that all of this hysteria is what's really non-sense about it all.

I hope this gives you goosebumps. The past few years Lakewood High School attempted to bring 100 inner city students to our classrooms because their schools were being worked on.

Dream nightmares folks, the inner city people are out to ruin Lakewood. Please.

that's the thing. All the police levy talks, the graffiti spotted in ____, or the bad landlords and the trash police, declining schools (have you seen the schools?) or the beatings on clarence talks have overtaken this forum.

The good things of lakewood are hidden a few posts or pages back where no one posts replies and no one seems to care. The fact that we have a beautiful new library, and there's four pages of complaining that the steps are in the back of the building and nothing positive is what upsets me.

Or that there are new school buildings up and they look great inside and out, and everyone's worried about our schools now.

or the police levy's because even though LPD responds within minutes to a call, they aren't magically there to stop the crime before it even occurs like you all want them to be.

This is all over the top hysteria and I frankly do not understand how it started, but I know where. it's on this forum.

The editors do a great (TREMENDOUS) job of keeping a lot of this negative bickering stuff out of the print edition of the paper because if that was the case we might as well merge with the PD. What the Lakewood Observer has done and hopefully will continue to do is provide a positive light to a city that really needs it. Citizens hear things from word of mouth, and with the negativity that is present on this forum it spreads to the other parts of town through word of mouth.

I'll sit back and laugh at the thought of how the city will be come New Years 2007 if this hysteria continues. Before you know it, this will be like Baghdad where you can't walk outside of your home after 8pm.

Keep it up. Inner City housing won't do much to harm this city, just as long as the trash police and graffiti watchers are out roaming the dark sidewalks of Lakewood, Ohio.


and if Gary Rice's hands are clean... The Rice Family has done more for the schools, the city's artists and musicians, and many other religious groups and churches and most importantly the LO in their time here in Lakewood than most of the families that are 3rd or 4th generation Lakewoodites. Gary Rice is a Lakewoodite and a perfect example of how a person should be. Accepting, Hard Working, Thankful and Honest.

The folks that know Gary Rice as a person laugh at these accusations that call Gary Rice a racist.

Phil Florian wrote: Sheesh. I was hoping someone would post on the Avon Lake church thing at least a little bit.

For example, this seems like the kind of program the more conservative posters would like. Why? It isn't an ongoing subsidy! It doesn't last forever! If the person gets a job and can start paying for themselves, great! If not, see you later because good luck getting subsidized vouchers at this point.

That's a good point.

The original purpose of this post was to start a discussion on a citywide housing policy. How to maintain property values? How to keep vacancy rates low? How to finance new housing? How to rehab old housing? How to compete in a competitive market? How to beautify a city? What role should the City play? Change traffic patterns? Change zoning?

Instead I guess we all let it turn it into a post on every body's favorite bogeyman (insert bogeyman of your choice).

The original purpose of this post was to start a discussion on a citywide housing policy. How to maintain property values? How to keep vacancy rates low? How to finance new housing? How to rehab old housing? How to compete in a competitive market? How to beautify a city? What role should the City play? Change traffic patterns? Change zoning?

if that was the original purpose, then why wasn't it stated?

instead you mentioned income class, combat zones and everyone else chipped in with their two cents about baggy pants, ho's and biatches, and so on.

this post turned into something else way before I posted my original "fiery" response.

These would've been great conversation starters, if they were asked at the start of the conversation. It would've led the post in a different direction, with questions about zoning and traffic patterns, things that mattered to the original subject.

Rick,

If that blue Monte' Carlo came down your street bumpin' "Penny Lane" or "Let it Be" would you still call LPD on it every time it rolled by?

Ivor Karabatkovic wrote:

The original purpose of this post was to start a discussion on a citywide housing policy. How to maintain property values? How to keep vacancy rates low? How to finance new housing? How to rehab old housing? How to compete in a competitive market? How to beautify a city? What role should the City play? Change traffic patterns? Change zoning?

if that was the original purpose, then why wasn't it stated?

Bill Call wrote:As the middle class seeks opportunities elswhere Lakewood is faced with either a high number of vacancies or fully rented suites rented to people with little or no income who are heavy users of government services.

Perhaps there is a third way: A real housing program.