The Observation Deck

How come no other mayor candidates have jumped in? There are a lot of us who have no idea who we are going to vote for yet so it would very helpful to know where they stand on the most important issue facing Lakewood! If they are for it, tell us why, or if they are against it! Anyone can talk about "safety" in Lakewood but how about entire destiny for Lakewood and visions for it????

Although The Deck is a great tool and uniquely superior to anything out there on-line, it is hard for any candidate to properly communicate views on important issues in this format.

It is one thing to state their opinion or platform regarding a topic, it is another to engage in an e-dialog, a lot can be lost in translation.

It's not that I wouldn't be curious to hear a response but I think that should be considered when asking that question.

Just my thoughts.

It seems like all the responses to "Regionalization" is that the County will become one big city on a certain date. That isn't going to happen anytime soon and everyone knows that. So why all the fuss. What if it means a sharing of communication systems, major purchases (i.e. street cleaners), snow plow services and purchasing. What about not duplicating sewer districts and other administrative functions (I still don't understand why Lakewood left RITA and if you want a regional tax system look at Columbus where you get 100% credit for paying taxes in another city). All of this talk about how our fire department will be merged with East Cleveland is ludicrous, but what about sharing services with Rocky River for the sections of town that are contiguous. This is not a all or nothing prospect, but rather baby steps.

Just because regionalization has worked in countless other areas doesn't mean it can't work here. And has for praising the mayor ??? in the paper it states he is looking at merging with another city and on this post he says he is for a strong Lakewood and ignores that comment. Me thinks he talks like a politician

I will, once the filing deadline has passed, be giving candidates the opportunity to post whatever they would like in the candidates forum, which is a non-discussion area.

That allows people to get their message out without dilution, however, anyone is free to discuss what has been posted in the general discussion area.

We had hoped that was a way for candidates to get their messages out more clearly than in the more piece-meal "rough and tumble" of the general discussion area.

so basically, the gist of what I'm reading here is "Divided we stand, united we fall."

Before everyone starts running around screaming that the sky has fallen, and wondering if regionalism means that "undesirable" folks from (gasp!) East Cleveland start wandering into Lakewood in search of subsidized housing, we need to slow down for a moment.

First off, right now people are TALKING about regionalism. This is not something that's going to occur ANYTIME soon, if at all. It's an idea that's being floated about. Research needs to be done. Other metropolitan areas who have gone regional need to be studied. I don't care where they are in the country, but they need to be studied to see good and bad. Right now, the assumption of most people on this thread is that there will be a big "City of Cleveland" where Cuyahoga County used to be, and that all money will go into what was once the city of Cleveland, to prop up old schools and old neighborhoods. That is completely idiotic. Anyone who thinks that a regional entity that fills Cuyahoga County and maybe into Lake and Lorain Counties is going to completely ignore the folks in the former inner-and-outer ring suburbs in favor of a few neighborhoods and schools in the urban core has got their heads up their rear ends. That's just fear-mongering in the worst case. And of course, there's also a tinge of fear, racial and economic ... we're all hard-working folks, and we don't want our tax dollars going to those shiftless (insert racial/ethnic group name here) who can't keep their own streets clean and safe. Yep, you folks have figured out the secret. Mega Cleveland is going to be set up, and Jimmy Dimora and Sam Miller are going to stop by all our houses, take our money, and then run right to East Cleveland and the Buckeye-Woodland neighborhood and hand it ALL over to poor negroes who will spend it all on drugs.

Hello ... anyone want to actually think for a moment?

Yes, there are perils associated with regionalism. The loss of a community's identity is one of them. That in and of itself will act as brakes to this concept picking up any momentum anytime soon. Though of course, the big brake on all this is fear. Because frankly, the outer-ring suburbs are afraid of the inner city, and in some cases, the inner ring suburbs. Why? Because of race and economics. A lot of the folks in the outer rings and farther out got their start in the inner city and inner-ring suburbs, a generation or two ago. And they white-flighted it out of there (which isn't new ... a lot of people "white-flighted" it out of neighborhoods in Cleveland when those poor and scary Irish, Poles, Italians, Slovaks and others moved in ... now their children and grandchild have fled ... it's a pretty endless cycle) when they could. And now they fear that becoming one regional metropolis will mean that they might have to be living next door to the same folks they fled from, or that they'll have no police at all, because the regional police will be all stationed downtown.

I mean, really ... do people really think this? And why is everyone so scared?

First off, we're a pretty small region overall. Look around at some of the big metropolitan areas ... I'm not talking about places that did the regionalization thing, but places like Chicago or New York. Look how many people live there ... look at how they have services, and they still retain some individual community identities there as well. New York's a great example. Yes, there's a HUGE urban area called New York. Millions upon millions of people. All races, all economic groups. All living in one government entity. Yet, there's still strong identity from what was formerly seperate municipalities like Brooklyn, the Bronx, etc. People there still identify themselves as Brooklynites, still feel that is who they are, but they're also New Yorkers. And NYPD and NYFD cover all of it with stations in all the neighborhoods ... and increased savings and efficiency by being able to purchase equipment in bulk, and coordinated leadership. And while New York's civic government has its moments of bad and good leadership ... everyone is represented. Yet here, everyone thinks that if Mega Cleveland gets set up, (and gee, we'll be HUGE ... with a couple of million people at best), everyone thinks that we'll be twiddling our thumbs out here in the "borough of Lakewood" or whatever, with no police, no fire, and no political representation.

I'm sorry, but it's really starting to sound idiotic. I just don't think these horror stories would happen. The resulting city would be governed and operated like existing mega cities, like Chicago, like New York, like Toronto, etc. Yes, there will be inefficiency in some areas, but efficiency in others. Yes, our politicians are corrupt and care only for their own power and influence (but guess what ... our politicians are rank amateurs compared to Chicago ... those folks wrote the book on corruption and petty politics, though it's also much better-run than Cleveland), but I really think these horror stories that the fearmongerers are spreading are a bunch of horsesh*t.

Regionalism is likely in our future. It is NOT going to be in the near future. It will take DECADES to become a reality. If you're so terrified of it, I suggest putting up your house for sale and white-flighting it even farther out. Maybe out in the far country you can find a nice place where the boogeyman of regionalism won't come knocking at your door and asking if they can put some Section 8 folks from East Cleveland next door.

But I think what is going to happen is going to happen slowly, if at all. And there's enough smart people in the region, though it sure doesn't seem that way from a lot of this debate, to make sure that it happens for the right reasons, and happens in the right way.

I'm one of those idiots who think it's actually a good thing. I'm realist enough to know that there are pitfalls (but frankly, there are also major pitfalls if we do nothing), and I'm cynical enough to know that getting past them isn't easy. I think if anything, regionalism will begin at the suburban level, as smaller inner-ring (and a few outer-ring) suburbs merge. I could see Linndale merging with Brooklyn ... Cleveland Heights merging with University Heights, South Euclid merging with Lyndhurst, Lakeline and Timberlake merging with Eastlake, which could also merge with Willowick, Parma Heights and Parma, Rocky River and Fairview, etc. That would likely happen first, and take place over MANY YEARS. Then you might see Cleveland begin to slowly expand. Probably first with East Cleveland (though everyone here views it as a huge ghetto filled with poor people just clamoring to move next door to all of us, it's actually a city with fiercely proud and independent ... as bad as their city services are, they actually don't want to merge with anyone, and want to keep their identity, though I think they are realizing that they're not digging out of the hole, but just keep getting deeper and deeper), maybe with Euclid, maybe elsewhere. Eventually ... and again, this is going to take decades at its fastest, there may eventually be a big mega Cleveland that fills what used to be Cuyahoga County, and perhaps even Lake County. Who knows, maybe even Lorain as well, and ultimately Akron. I don't know. No one knows.

And of course, it could also not happen. And we could turn into a region with a dead metropolitan area, surrounded by poor suburbs, well-off suburbs, and affluent suburbs. But as the inner city decays further, the decay will spread. And as people keep leaving, the decay will continue futher. Even if Lakewood puts up a huge wall around itself (which some people would probably like), it'll be caught up as well.

The original phrase, which still makes the most sense, was "United we stand, divided we fall." We do need to all work together to make our urban area strong, because that will radiate outward and make all of our communities strong. Regionalism is an answer. Notice I'm not saying "THE" answer. It's just an answer. But it sure as hell seems better than hiding our heads in the sand and hoping that all the bad people go away. And if it does become THE answer, rest assured, it ain't gonna happen overnight. Perhaps ... not even in our lifetimes.

So quit having nightmares, quit building barricades around your houses, quit spreading alarms. Instead, go outside and chat with your neighbors. Take a walk to the park. Bring your dog to the dog park. Have a beer at the corner tavern. Paint those porch steps, they need it. The more we worry ... the more worries we create.

Thank you for that.

I will add only one simple point which I tried to make the other day.

If you work or spend outside Lakewood and its hard not to, your DOLLARS are already "regionalized." Your VOICE however, is heard only in Lakewood.
if you work in Cleveland, you pay a few hundred dollars a year into a system that will sell you down the river on water rates, tax abatement, job creation, etc. and you dont get to have a say at all. If you buy a dress or a refrigerator in North Olmsted or Westlake your helping to support a system that sticks it to you from the other direction.
NOT working or spending outside the city is an option not open to many of us

Lakewood (and some other cities) have been docile, voiceless cash cows for a long time now.

So because some of us non-politicians want to know where candidates stand on regionalism, or because we don't believe in it or want to know more about it so that we can make educated opinions, you have grouped us all into idiots and racists and have our heads up our behind? wow.

I thank you Dee again for giving some explanation without name-calling, assumptions or condescending remarks. Some of us really do want to know the pros and cons in a rational and respectful way.

As far as the fear of "color" in this city, not only does it not factor into the regionalism concept for some, but I am more shocked that a mayor candidate is going around telling people there is gang violence in Lakewood and putting fear into some to get votes.

C. Dawson

I am not afraid of the "Negroes in East Cleveland!"

I spent last week working with people in East Cleveland on some very cutting edge projects right out of the Lakewood Visionary Alignment, they are making things happen quickly with VAL ideas. It seemed that many groups and city people here could not understand what Cleveland Heights, University Heights, Westlake, Solon and now East Cleveland saw as genius ideas to help their cities.

So no I am not afraid of "Negroes," or anyone else.

C and Dee

Look at the region, who is left to pull us up as a region? Solon, maybe. Westlake, maybe, from there the pickings get pretty slim.

Can Lakewood afford the drain on our tax dollars and services for one year? Two years? Three years? No. Can Lakewood wait the 15 - 20 years for regionalism to take off, No. So where does that leave us as residents of a city? Stuck in the middle again!

Here is the simplest of all facts to consider, in a city/region. Do we all become cookie cutters of the same region. 57 very similar cities with police, services, water, etc. Or can we be bold enough thinkers to stand apart, or above the rest? Can Lakewood go forth with the simple thinking of being a different choice. To me, in marketing it seems like a no brainier. 56 black cars and one red car. Which gets bought first, which gets looked at the most.

I am not afraid of the boogerman, I am afraid of an entire region that has been so poorly run that we are where we are now, and thinking anyone can step forward and help. The article says it all, 57 mayors none stepping forward. Go figure. How on earth is putting them in a room going to help anything? It will not. Instead the region spirals down with everyone blaming everyone else for the dismal performance.

Might not work for all, but for me, I want to see Lakewood move to the next level up, and it is easier and closer than you think.

Regionalism! Go read the story of stone soup.

FWIW.


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Jim -

You didn't get my last post...the point I was trying to make is that you "called out", as it were, all the candidates to state their position on regionalism. I did, Monday afternoon. You mentioned that only the mayor had jumped in...

However, just to make sure...

I believe that the problem with this whole discussion is that there are actually two thoughts being discussed that need to be separated. We need to address whether we are talking about 'regionalism', or whether we are 'thinking regionally'.

As for the former, I don't believe that Lakewood, or any other city (well, maybe Linndale) are going to annex or be annexed. That would essentially defeat what each city (all 57 of them) do best. That is provide for basic services: pick up the trash, maintain the streets, provide police and fire protection. These essential services are best provided on the local level...that is why I strongly believe that Lakewood the city will not change. Further, our tax dollars are not going to go to some county government to provide these same city services. Can there be some combining of resources? Yes. When appropriate. Let's make sure the regional sewer system is working, the county children's services are protecting children, that the county sheriffs are able to pursue multi-jurisdictional law enforcement.

However, it is necessary, now more than ever, to 'think regionally' As individuals, as a city, as a county, we need to think of ways to continue to move the region, Cleveland and all of northeast Ohio, forward.

The Ohio Canal Corridor is a prime example. Approximately twenty years ago, Tim Donovan and Tom Yablonsky, who were active in downtown development non-profits, adopted an idea to create a regional park system that would follow the Cuyahoga River valley from Canton to Cleveland. (It had been done successfully in four or five other areas of the country.) From humble beginnings, and after ten or so years of dogged work by a core group of only four or five individuals, most notably Tim Donovan, this idea blossomed into the Ohio Canal Corridor.

Today, at the twenty year mark, their regional vision has turned into the Towpath Trail, which spans from the lakefront to Canton. You can now bike (almost) from Cleveland to Canton. Their are road signs to direct tourists. There is the Cuyahoga Valley railroad. And most importantly, many of the communities that border this sixty mile stretch of the valley are now tying into the towpath with their own trails and bike paths. The Ohio Canal Corridor has become an economic engine bringing tourists and development to the entire region of northeast Ohio.

So, let's not worry about Lakewood. It will continue to thrive. What I want to know is what is the next big idea for the region, and who is going to propose it?

Dan Shields

Okay, I admit, I'd rather read a newspaper I can hold in my hand than posts on the Observation Deck but I try to at least scan the new topics.

Did I miss something in these pages or did Ryan Demro and/or Ed Fitzgerald post their respective positions on Lakewood, et al becoming "Greater Cleveland?"

For the record, I'm not in favor of - what was Jeff's word? - univgov but would like to see more co-operation between cities ala the school districts' buying consortium.

I appreciate that Mayor George has posted his stance.

Plainly and simply, can we get the same from Mr. Demro and Mr. Fitzgerald? For that matter, can we get each council-person's position on this issue?

This is another opportunity for each candidate to reach the citizens.

As a shameless plug for the print edition of the LO, can we get the mayoral candidates, councilpersons and candidates to submit their positions in writing for the paper on this issue?

Again, this is another venue for each candidate to reach out to citizens who may not be home when you come knocking on their doors.

JMHO,
Heidi

Dan Shields wrote: I believe that the problem with this whole discussion is that there are actually two thoughts being discussed that need to be separated. We need to address whether we are talking about 'regionalism', or whether we are 'thinking regionally'.
Dan Shields

Dan

Sorry I missed the post, thanks for jumping in.


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c.
Thanks for countering what seems to be the growing consensus or at least the loudest voices. I've lost count of the number of times that I have deleted a response to this thread because I'm convinced that this topic is just too emotionally charged to discuss rationally. But since I've started again, regionalism makes more sense to me than many of the VAL suggestions. Then again, I'm not falling for all the boogeyman arguments and see it primarily as a recalibration to compete on the same playing field with other cities, and a way to streamline municipal business.

Doesn't the loss of identity argument sounds strange coming from a city that has places like Birdtown and Clifton Park? And how can proximity to the city center be used as a benefit in one discussion but not be something that benefits Lakewood when the goal is to revitalize that same city center? Finally, while Westlake and Solon could be considered givens on cities that would bring the most to the table, if we're looking at tax rates and cost of city services wouldn't Lakewood be on the side of having the most to gain from spreading the cost? Reading through some of these posts it gives the impression the Lakewood is flush with money and would be giving up everything to go into this. As far as the schools go, this would be a great time to spread the cost. It's not like they are paid for yet. I know this goes against the rah rah spirit of the deck but since it is pertinent to the discussion, wouldn't every city from #3 down on the list of tax rates for property and commercial be looking at Lakewood as a taker rather than a contributor? We certainly are key in adding more residents to the headcount and would need to be a part because of the proximity to Cleveland.

Release the hounds. Tell me how wrong I am to not be 'fraid of the boogeyman. Tell me how perceptions, whether it's an individual or a corporation looking to relocate do not get swayed by seeing "Cleveland" as the poorest, fattest, dumbest, stinkiest, shortest, dirtiest....whatever other topic of the week a magazine pulls to compare us against others who have gone to a regionalized format. Interesting to note that once this goes through "Cleveland" will be the 7th largest city (population) in the country. I wonder how much better we would stack up if we level the playing field. Tell me how it's better to set our sights on competing with Fairview or Westlake or East Cleveland rather than going up against Phoenix or Minneapolis or Sarasota.

Shawn

Why would it make sense to spread the costs now, after we paid for the schools?

How does Lakewood win?

the best argument if you look at the facts is that we stay about where we are, maybe loose a little $$$$$.

Which of the VAL ideas make no sense?

the library?

the free ecommerce sites for businesses?

the Lakewood Observer?

The Catholic Academy?

LEAF Community?

Bike Lakewood?

Drafting Good Neighbors?

MAMA/DADA

Block walks/watches

Emerald Canyon CoOp to bring the cost of living in Lakewood down?

Used bookstore?

Starting businesses to turn over to Lakewood owners?

to name a few

Just curious.

It would seem to some that the only thing working in Lakewood are the ideas coming out of the VAL.

Oh wait Lakewood night in Mentor. Wait that is not a VAL thing!

That night we are hosting Mentor business owners in Lakewood for the VAL!


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Oh I must have been mistaken that levy that was just past must have been paid for the day after election day. The operating budget that hasn't come through yet is also paid for? What a relief to hear that the schools are paid for and we won't need to fund it for the next 28 years as the verbage on the ballot had indicated.
The VAL ideas that I loved were the 20,000 more residents that weren't going to require more city services or traffic issues and the cure all peninsula.
I can appreciate your passion for the city Jim but it's a big world out there. I really wish that you could grasp how trite your references to a Lakewood Community day at a minor league park is (it's not like there was one here that could have been chosen instead) and how ridiculous you sound when you start going on about Lakewood being an island that could exist without the cities that surround us. We are terribly dependent on things outside of Lakewood (jobs and shopping being just two things)but from the way that you present it would seem that we are totally autonomous and would be fine if everything outside of Lakewood was just gone tomorrow.