The Observation Deck

I hear a strong reaction against the idea of white guilt, but I don't hear anybody advocating for it. Engaging in a dialogue does not mean advocating for white guilt.

To initiate a dialogue is not to make or accept excuses. (We are all responsible for our actions.)

To initiate a dialogue is not, as Shawn states, to lead to "more social programs funded by the government."

To initiate a dialogue is to open an inquiry for broader understanding. As dl succinctly says:

Community conversations are valuable and may lead us towards better understanding of each other, which allows us more opportunities to be better neighbors.

Strong communities are the result of good neighbor communication.

Perhaps the term "understanding" should be clarified. "Understanding" does not mean "so much sympathy that I no longer hold people responsible for their behavior." Understanding means "letting go of our assumptions, broadening my knowledge of the many factors and perspectives involved" in an issue.

To understand does require us to listen; to listen does require some form of acceptance--i.e. we presume the person or perspective we're listening to may turn out to be legitimate or have something to teach us.

My question for the group: are we starting this dialogue with our ears closed and our minds already made up?

If so, we would be hamstringing the dialogue before it's begun. An effective dialogue begins with the premise that all parties have something to learn from others and that none of us begins with the full answer.

This topic is eliciting strong responses--a sign we have strong feelings about it. In my experience, I have found it most difficult to remain open when I have (legitimate) frustrations about an issue.

We may need to work very hard to prepare ourselves to hear and listen as part of a dialogue about such a difficult topic.

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Shawn asks, "why should we stop with just African American students"? I'm willing to start by focusing first on race since Sean initiated this and correctly points out that this is a full plate, for starters.

However I am very much interested in expanding the focus to all problem behaviors in Lakewood by all people, of all ages, all genders, all ethnicities. I'd like a "good neighbor" dialogue that helps adults in our neighborhoods, as well as kids in our schools.

Dee Martinez wrote:A bunch of white men talking about what Lakewood needs to do about its "colored problem."

Dee


I did not think nor did I ever think we have a "colored problem."

I thought we were saying it is a behavioral problem.


FWIW



.

the original question by MrWheeler was framed in terms of "race" not "behavior"
My "colored problem" comment was meant to be purposely provocative for all involved
the fact remains that, while I dont expressly know the ethnicity of all participants, I suspect they are largely White. If I am mistaken in that I will stand corrected.

My position that "dialog" between White and Black communities remains largely one of Black anger vs. White guilt, and therefore unresolvable, remains largely uncontested.

these "problems" are all caused by bored teens.

I'll try to explain this as easy as I can:
Lakewood sucks when it comes to things to do for teens.

you have parks, but teens get scolded for hanging out in groups at parks because ALL teens are troublemakers in a Lakewoodite's eye. You have two school dances a year. Not everyone goes and supports the sports (I believe more should) and recreation sports run only in the summer. there is NO basketball hoop up at any school or park. No soccer fields, the only thing we have is the skate park. Not everyone skates.

We're bored. it's that simple. when we have nothing to do, we walk around and do nothing. that's when angry old citizens call in and say "hey there's a group of teens hanging out at the corner of my street, i don't like it!"

The only reason why I spend most of my time here in Lakewood is because of LHS sports. I'm at an event 4 nights out of the week.

Is it just me, or do people lose sleep over the fact that Lakewood's african american population is 2%, 1.7% more than bay village?

Is the 1.7% difference SO BAD that people actually lose value and sell houses in order to move out of Lakewood when they're usually 4th generation here?

Lakewood's never been a city for teens. That's why behavior of kids gets bad. they're all bored and need a new thrill.

Is it the job of the city of Lakewood to provide bread and circuses to Lakewood teens of any race?
Teens are bored EVERYWHERE. It's their JOB to be bored. I was a bored teen myself and as I recall nothing the mayor could have done would have satisifed me. Where is it written that the city mothers and fathers should be court jesters looking to amuse and occupy the Lord Teens of any community?

Where exactly are teens NOT bored? Please provide specific examples.
Race is a huge and I would say fundamentally defining problem in our nation. Reducing it to the ennui of adolescence minimizes the issues we face.

Ivor Karabatkovic wrote:these "problems" are all caused by bored teens.

I'll try to explain this as easy as I can:
Lakewood sucks when it comes to things to do for teens.

you have parks, but teens get scolded for hanging out in groups at parks because ALL teens are troublemakers in a Lakewoodite's eye. You have two school dances a year. Not everyone goes and supports the sports (I believe more should) and recreation sports run only in the summer. there is NO basketball hoop up at any school or park. No soccer fields, the only thing we have is the skate park. Not everyone skates.

We're bored. it's that simple. when we have nothing to do, we walk around and do nothing. that's when angry old citizens call in and say "hey there's a group of teens hanging out at the corner of my street, i don't like it!"...

Lakewood's never been a city for teens. That's why behavior of kids gets bad. they're all bored and need a new thrill.

Ivor

Thanks for the insight.

He has once again nailed a good portion of the problem.

Ivor Lakewood was not always like this. Back when the people who are complaining were kids, there was delicatessens, soda shops, drug stores. and parks. Yes Parks. I have no idea when it all went wrong.

On a Saturday you could walk from the broken ford to the bridge on the hoods of the cars of people throwing Frisbee, playing music really loud, and doing other things. Of course that is no longer safe for you kids...

I notice and made mention earlier about a basketball court on Madison and Woodword, with 5 courts, that would stay packed all night in the summer. It was torn down for the new school. I always wonder what those 100 or so teens are doing now?

Thanks for the post.


.

I always wonder what those 100 or so teens are doing now?

I can tell you. they were classmates.

4 dropped out of school, one joined the army and is blasting music really loud. Three moved to Fairview, strongsville, Rocky River (they must have hoops in those cities).

a few are in school still. none play sports for the high school.

A few more graduated in the last year. They are now at college, slowly poisoning their livers sip after sip.

Jokingly I'd always talk to my friends about how we won't be bored and driving around in a few years. We'll be 21 and there's plenty to do here for a 21 year old.

My brother is 23 years of age and is bored out of his mind at the OSU campus. He loves coming home to Lakewood because there's tons to do here with his friends. Coincidence?

back to the race topic though...

Let’s recap Sean’s initial claim that race is “at the root of the issue.â€Â￾

Thus Sean: “I've read alot about legislating change, but not enough about actually finding out why we have a tendency to equate blackness with decline.â€Â￾

Sociologists Robert J. Sampson and Stephen W. Raudenbush address the issue of racial context and perceptions of decline among black, Latino and white neighborhoods in “Neighborhood Stigma and the Perception of Disorder:â€Â￾

“Our findings to this point support the hypothesis that neighborhood racial context helps shape residents’ perceptions of disorder. In general, as we noted, black residents reported lower levels of disorder than white residents for the same neighborhood. As the percentage of black residents in a neighborhood increased, we found, so too did perceptions of disorder by residents in each ethnic group, including blacks. This was especially true for Latinos. In neighborhoods that were less than 25 percent black, whites and Latinos essentially did not differ in their perceptions of disorder…

Observers supplement what they see with beliefs or assumptions informed by the racial stigmatization of modern urban ghettos, in which geo-graphically segregated minority groups were linked with poverty, economic disinvestment, and visible signs of disorder. Because people act on their perceptions of dis-order, the consequence is a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby all actors (not only white residents) are likely to disinvest in or move away from black or mixed areas they view as at high risk of disorder.â€Â￾

Source:
http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/soc/faculty/ ... enbush.pdf

Are Lakewood residents any different in the perceptions of disorder ascribed to an increasing black population?

Incidentally, the Black Youth Project provides survey data that might give us a glimpse into the “stark reality of poverty, imprisonment, disease, and other life-threatening conditions that makes exploring the attitudes, norms, resources, and behaviors of this population so important.â€Â￾

See:

http://blackyouthproject.uchicago.edu/w ... ummary.pdf

Kenneth Warren

Joe Ott wrote:

Ivor Karabatkovic wrote: The car that has 20,000 hertz of power and blasts Hip Hop with 10 small speakers, 3 15" speakers, two subwoofers and two 12" speakers installed is driven around by a good friend of mine that is white, enrolled in the US Army and is graduating from high school in a week.

It is that kind of behavior that I think perpetuates these problems.

If that's the same car I'm thinking of, I call the police every time it rolls down my street.

Ivor Karabatkovic wrote:these "problems" are all caused by bored teens.

I'll try to explain this as easy as I can:
Lakewood sucks when it comes to things to do for teens.

Lakewood's never been a city for teens. That's why behavior of kids gets bad. they're all bored and need a new thrill.

There's plenty to do in Lakewood once you're of legal, drinking age -- then the behavior really improves.

I'm completely lost and am not sure what this thread is about anymore. Behavior, racism/bigotry, bored teens, parental involvement, whether white men are qualified to respond?

Mr. Wheeler originally wrote, "In speaking with my African-American students, they all tell me that they moved here because their parents want them to get a better education. So how are they fairing in Lakewood? Not too well. I challenge you all to look at the racial achievement gap on the latest round of Ohio Graduation Test Scores (go to the ODE website). We have African-American students routinely scoring 20% to 30% behind their white peers in nearly every category. Does anyone smell a disconnect between parent goals and student achievement? I do. And I think it's time that we begin a discussion with these parents."

I commented that studies have shown the inter- and intra-school community in which an African American student learns and lives impacts individual student achievement and can widen the racial achievement gap. This supports Mr. Wheeler's comments. However, environment should be considered as just one of a number of probable impacts on the racial achievement gap. Others involve teacher and parent expectations, student attitude toward academic achievement, acknowledgment that a gap exists, teaching methods, parental positive impact on child learning.

Through my professional work, I know that other cities and districts have tackled the racial achievement gap issue(s) and have developed some degree of success.

Is this an effort of one LHS teacher or is this an issue the District really wants to open up to the entire Lakewood community with complete sunshine, warts and all?

One assumption that Mr Wheeler has at the center of the argument is that "Lakewood is changing" means that more black residents are moving in. My opinion and what others I talk to seem to agree with is that this is not a race issue. It's a "slum" issue (ghetto seems to be misunderstood as black even though it's Russian.. odd). It was mentioned before but it's worth repeating. The behavior and to go a step further the appearance of many that are moving into Lakewood are what depreciates the value in my mind. I am far more concerned about the Hillbillies and white trash than I am about someone who's black. It bears repeating but the problems that I've seen (the numerous times that multiple squad cars have been on a bust at the crappy apartment down the street) it's been white people that were being arrested. Lakewood is changing means to me that I had a perception of what the city was like and at times it doesn't hold true. Based on meeting people from here, shopping in the stores, drinking in the bars, eating in the restaurants I had a picture of Lakewood. At times that picture gets distorted and you run into a string of folks that you don't want to associate with and you get uncomfortable around. Sometimes those individuals turn into people that you get to know and trust. Other times your gut is right and you're just better off keeping your distance. Maybe some that move away have done so too fast, or maybe we're being too tolerant of who the landlord next door is letting live on your block. Oddly as I think about it the people that I've met in Lakewood that were black were more suburban white than most of the white people I know.
I agree with Dee when we get to the point of "correcting" the problem though. I am happy to share my opinion but if we are really going to categorize a group of students and discuss why they are not performing as well as the rest, we have to see how bizarre if not condescending that can be. Has school really changed that much that there are not parent/teacher conferences to individualize the solution rather than opening a public forum.

By the way Ivor, every town is boring when your a teenager. The only way to fix it is to outlive it and take control of your own fun. Lord knows anything that us old foggies come up with will just be laughed at by anyone under 18.

I have been following this thread with a great deal of interest, as the issue of the rise of chaos making is one which is of some considerable concern. Notwithstanding Dee’s dismissal of a group of white men discussing the problem, since it is of concern, it is indeed a problem that needs to be discussed, and the discussion must include all those on who it has impact, black, white, brown, yellow or red.

What I see developing is an interesting dichotomy. Some wish to view this as, primarily, a racial issue. If that be the case, the discussion MUST be extended to include any minority who is at odds with those in the majority. The issue of behavior is secondary in this analysis, and seems to be a symptom of some societal bias. The thought seems to be, that unless we address the societal issues, the symptoms which we observe will not abate. Once those underlying issues are addressed, the logical extension would be that the symptoms of that bias will vanish.

Others tend to focus on primarily on the objectionable behaviors. The racial aspect is secondary, and enters in only by way of those who believe that the objectionable behavior includes an element of race, only as a secondary issue. As I view that side of the discussion the issue is simply one of stating the rules, and expecting that those who exist within the society will follow the behavioral norms. Enforcement would appear to be the solution. The underlying bias issue may remain, but at least the symptom will be vanquished.

On one hand, you have the hope that as a minority is brought into the society through inclusion, aberrant behavior will voluntarily self regulate. As a group becomes a part of the society at large, they will tend to adopt the norms of that society. On the other hand there is the idea of forcing adherence to societal norms, regardless of whether those against whom enforcement is sought “feelâ€Â￾ they are a part of that society.

So, let’s cut to the chase. Objectionable behavior is not limited to one identifiable group. There are thugs of all description, Middle Eastern, black, white, male, female, Hispanic. If you can identify a group, I can pretty much guarantee that there will be members of that group that display chaos making behavior. Lakewood has a good number of ethnic minorities, as well as racial minorities, and the inclusion discussion must include all. And while all must be included in the discussion, to what degree do we have the wherewithal to develop the programs and social support network necessary to “cureâ€Â￾ the bias problem? To what degree do those who have a societal disconnect even wish to work toward resolving the issue of societal bias? In many cases, the disconnect with the engines of society is so pervasive within the elements of chaos makers that a conversation will be largely one-sided. Voluntary acceptance and compliance with societal norms is a goal which will take a generation (or more) to accomplish.
And we should work towards that goal.

In the mean time, we must do whatever is necessary to maintain order and safety within the community. To do otherwise changes what we view as societal norms into the acceptance of thuggery. So, I guess I’m going to be less than PC here, but unless we force compliance to acceptable standards of behavior, there will be no standards left to which future generations can voluntarily adhere. While I’d be happy to mentor a kid, first he’s going to have to pull up his pants.


Jeff

A story in today's PD relates directly to this discussion.

A group of black professionals created a research foundation to look into the achievement gap and traced it to anti-education attitudes, a failure of parenting. Reaction, including from former schools ceo BBB, is mixed.

http://www.cleveland.com/education/plai ... xml&coll=2

Ok, here is my $0.02 worth. Any discussion about race relations begins in your own head. Take a long look at yourself. Ask some tough questions. How many friends do you have who are different from you? What can you do to change this? I find many of "open minded" folks who have have no close friends who are a different color. Why? It is easy to talk all day, but change comes from within.
In case you all forgot, there is only one race, the human race. We are right to engage the people falling through the cracks and those who disrupt our community. Please look at yourself first.