Sun Post Endorses Issue 11, VOTE YES

David Scott · Post by **David Scott** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:33 pm

Just because I can't understand Mr Warren does't mean I don't have some common sense. I understand all these postings are just opinions - If I read Mr Foran's article it does not have a disclamer and comes off as a news story

Again, now I understand that all the items posted on this website are just people's opinions. My misunderstanding was in thinking that those items posted on the main page were news articles.

Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:43 pm

Just because I can't understand Mr Warren does't mean I don't have some common sense.

Mr.Scott,

I haven't understood Mr.Warren since the day I've had the pleasure to meet him. Love him and all, great guy, but he loses me after "how are you today?"

Kenneth Warren · Post by **Kenneth Warren** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:53 pm

Ivor:

IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve noticed you miss even the simplest things, like, when I tried to hand you the broom to clean up on Detroit Avenue at the LCPI event two Saturdays ago, and you stood there smiling, camera in hand, acting like a professional.

Kenneth Warren

Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Sat May 05, 2007 10:11 pm

indeed, Mr.Warren. indeed.

Jim O'Bryan · Post by **Jim O'Bryan** » Sun May 06, 2007 7:59 am

David

I would like to spin this thread off to another thread that addresses all of your concerns and questions. the most important question at this time in media is, "Democracy and the Media."

As we have spoken with other groups it seems that there is much confusion over the many forms of journalism emerging. Blogs, Free Papers, You Tube, News Sites, WebSites, National Papers, Magazines, Regional Papers, Discussion Boards, Citizen Journalism, Open Source Journalism, Share-Cropping Journalism and what we practice here Civic Journalism.

This might be a perfect time to clear the air as we approach the end of our second full year of printing, and 4th year of this project. I think we can finally define what we are doing and why.

.

dl meckes · Post by **dl meckes** » Sun May 06, 2007 9:56 am

David Scott wrote:I guess I am just easily confused.

Either the paper endorses or it doesn't endorse. The last two posts contradict what was written earlier by the main founder of the paper. If people are just writing articles for submission, isn't there some type of approval process ?? If anyone can just write an article and submit it shouldn't there be some type of disclaimer that the opinion stated in the article is not necessarily the opinion of the editorial board ?? That is how most newspapers I have read do it - they either place the articles on an editorial page or separate themselves from opinion since newspapers are supposed to contain news articles which are based on fact. Maybe it all has to do with my lack of knowledge of the paper. Maybe it isn't meant to be a newspaper, but rather a community happenings and opinion. I honestly don't think I've ever read the paper and only puruse the website to update myself on local happenings. I don't come here for news but rather community happenings. I just didn't like the statement that we don't endorse when we obviously endorse.

David-

As has been mentioned, the Observer project has disclaimers all over the place. One on the front page of the paper reads, "Your Independent Source for Local News and Opinion."

Lots of voices equals no "party line."

There is an approval mechanism in place-the editor and publisher. However, the Observer is dedicated to publishing as much of what is submitted to the paper as is possible. That means there is no "editorial board."

The first two paragraphs of the Observer Mission Statement read, "The mission of the Lakewood Observer is to attract, articulate, and amplify civic intelligence and community good will in the city of Lakewood and beyond.

Our goal is to help Lakewood residents and neighbors learn as much as possible about the city. In its efforts to know Lakewood par excellence, the Lakewood Observer will illuminate the many facets of culture, arts, business, education, religion, and lifestyle this diverse city has to offer."

One basic way to both learn and illuminate is to allow people with a passion to share their knowledge and interests. It makes sense to the Observer advisers that people with direct knowledge of something write about it. I believe this conveys more information than having a disinterested third party filter information.

The paper is filled with articles written by volunteers. Each of their names is listed in each issue. Contributors vary from issue to issue. As a so-called adviser, I would never presume to speak for the paper because it is representative of many voices. Also, my main area of concern is not the paper, but the Deck.

I do not want to see "the paper" making endorsements for a variety of reasons. In the case of the school levy, we had a lightening strike where all of the advisers actually agreed on something, actually communicated with each other about the supporting that issue, and also felt that if we endorsed the issue as a group, it might carry more weight than our individual endorsements.

The Observer advisers are an independent bunch. Each of us agrees with the concept of publishing work from as many voices as wish to participate in the process. That's why we all contributed in getting this project started and that's why most of us spend way too much time volunteering to keep it running.

The Lakewood Observer is not like and was never meant to emulate a traditional newspaper. I think it's exciting that the paper has published writers from pre-teen to octogenarian. I think it's fantastic that people who have never written or published an article (or letter to the editor) can be columnists or contributors.

The Lakewood Observer is not the advisers' paper, it's the community's (volunteer writers') paper. It doesn't feel right (to me) for the advisers to say, "The Lakewood Observer endorses issue X" but I have no problem saying, "The Lakewood Observer advisers endorse issue X."

In this one case, each as well as all of us felt it important to (virtually) stand together to back the schools.

The advisers have not endorsed any other issue but the school levy.

dl meckes · Post by **dl meckes** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:16 am

DougHuntingdon wrote:sounds like we need an online chat

I mean a real online chat--not one where you post a message, wait 15 minutes for it to pass through "screening," and then maybe get a response.

This could easily be done for free through phpbb chat. Look at the bottom of the page, and you will see that this forum is a phpbb bbs. It could also be done for free on irc or other ways.

However, I doubt this will ever happen.

Doug

Doug-

Posts are not screened prior to showing up on the Deck. If your ISP is slow, then your ISP is slow. There is no built in hang time on this end.

If you would like to set up a chat, then have at it. Talk with Jim and do it.

It won't happen if you don't step up.

You seem to insinuate that there's some mysterious reason why there is no chat.

My time bank is empty. If you want to be the champion of that aspect of the Observer project, then do it. That means you'll have to oversee it and administrate it (or find a staff to work for free to do that) 24/7/365, so take that into account. But if you want to see chat, make it happen.

DougHuntingdon · Post by **DougHuntingdon** » Sun May 06, 2007 11:47 am

):

so sad that there is so much hostility on here at times fostered by incorrect assumptions and reading between the lines

dl meckes · Post by **dl meckes** » Sun May 06, 2007 11:51 am

How would you interpret,

not one where you post a message, wait 15 minutes for it to pass through "screening," and then maybe get a response.

There is no screening on the Deck, Doug.

Perhaps you are confused about this and other forums.

Dan Shields · Post by **Dan Shields** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:50 pm

Ms. Meckes -

You mentioned there was a 'lightneing strike' where the advisors agreed to endorse Issue 4. What about Issue 11? Was there a discussion concerning an endorsement?

Dan Shields

dl meckes · Post by **dl meckes** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:20 am

Mr. Shields,

There has been no discussion regarding that issue.

stephen davis · Post by **stephen davis** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:07 pm

There are a few threads running simultaneously with regard to the proposed Lakewood City Charter Amendment ? Issue 11.

Here are links to the most active threads for your review.

http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewt ... 72&start=0

http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewt ... sc&start=0

http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewt ... 77&start=0

I am voting AGAINST Issue 11 tomorrow. You should all read and decide.

At the very least, Vote FOR 4.

Suzanne Metelko · Post by **Suzanne Metelko** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:27 pm

So first the arguement is keeping the politics of city government out of the school system and now it is the job of the city government to manage the employees of the school system?

Which one is it going to be?

I'm voting YES on issue 11. It's about access, everyone deserves that.

Dan Shields · Post by **Dan Shields** » Tue May 08, 2007 12:18 am

Suzanne -

Win or lose, I believe your argument misses the mark. We on the Charter Review Commission did not seek to 'manage' the actions of anybody. Don't make our participation out to be something it wasn't.

I'm voting No on Issue 11 -

Jeff Endress · Post by **Jeff Endress** » Tue May 08, 2007 6:49 am

It's about access, everyone deserves that

Is it really? Where are all the school employees that tried to run for council, but were turned away? Where is the legal action by the ACLU on behalf of the employee who was denied access.

To be denied access, one has to desire access. I have yet to see anyone who is affected, ie., has been denied access, say ANYTHING. I can only assume that this is a selling point, the spin, but not a the real concern. Were it otherwise, we'd see all those affected rising up to demand their access. Hasn't happened. Isn't the real concern.

I'm voting no.

Jeff