The Observation Deck

well clearly from looking around Lakewood, no one is naked. They must be buying their clothes from somewhere. And Coach bags, quality of life and conversations outside of the city... I can only guess what you mean by that and I think it totally misses my point of being able to buy a pair of pants.
Are we really going to pin our retail future on Marc's and Dollar Tree? I'm not asking that we open a Nordstrom's and provide high tea at the polo fields but what direction do we think this is going to go if we blow the walls out on stores like these? Nothing like an anchor that attracts those that can't afford more than $1 per item.

Perhaps a Neo-Woolworth's would do.

as long as I can buy a swell pair of slacks there.

The gains in inventory management and communications wrought by the Computer should mean an entrepeneur could open up a 300 square foot clothing store and offer prices comparable to those of Target, Kohl's or Wal-Mart. Depending on depth and breadth of quality or perceived quality. especially in an area with undervalued retail space and a relatively intelligent population.

Most of the money in Fashion goes to repetitive or ostentatious designers and marketing executives, big ticket celebrity endorsements, spin, and then shipping cotton to Asia and Latin America, then shipping the products back here.

Shawn

The point always come back to the same topics. You want pants, my wife wants skirts.(for the record Geiger's has both, as do another half a dozen places). Someone else wants a Coach Bag, and on and on.

So the questions are. How many pairs of pants will anyone sell int Lakewood. What is the impact on other businesses selling in Lakewood. what is the appeal to others outside of Lakewood and WILL IT add to the tax base or take away.

When I mention the Coach Store for the conversation. This takes into account that Shawn will not buy enough pants to keep the store afloat. So does it become a very small convenience, brought on by the unwillingness to leave Lakewood for rarely bought items, OR does it become the conversation, which I believe 80% of this talk is. "Lakewood well we have that new shopping district..." Stuff for the mere sake to make a few feel better about the city.

You do realize what I am saying. I have ten dream items for Lakewood, and not one sells pants. Ken has ten ideas for stores in Lakewood and NONE sell what I like or want. If we are in Westlake, North Olmsted, Solon, Independence, you could put your pants store in that empty field. It will make everything around it better and more valuable. But in Lakewood, something must be torn down or moved. This makes it a gamble that has to be thoroughly sorted out.

As mentioned by a Westend fan that just blew through the office. "Had the Westend been built, Lakewood would be bankrupt right now." The actually assessment is 12 million in debt, with another 27 years before we make a penny.

I am willing to buy into the pants store IF it adds to the city. seems simple enough.

FWIW


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I'll try to offer some decent answers to your questions..

>Why not pick-up a book at an award winning library, and take it over to the Phoenix?

Ah, I wish it were that simple. But it's not! Let's think it through.

Ok, first of all, I like to buy books, not just check them out of a library. Can I do that at a bookstore immediately adjacent to Phoenix? No, because there isn't one.

Also, I like to thumb through magazines. Does Phoenix have about 250 different magazines to look through? No, it doesn't.

Also, I like to spend time in an area with a decent amount of people flowing in and out. Border's seats about 40, and has constant in/out traffic because of all the other businesses. Does Phoenix have that?

Also, I like to go out later in the evening (10pm-midnight). Actually, I don't know Phoenix's hours. What are they?

>In other threads you mention how storefront vacancies in the Wood disturb you.
>This is how you counteract the economic momentum that draws energy from the small shop, mom and pop commerce AND commually held goods, ex. Libraries. The vitality of the storefronts and that of communally held goods are not independent.

Fair enough, but it's not my mission to transform neighborhoods. I'm a consumer. I know what I want (as specified above), and I got to places that provide it. If you want to win over a vanguard of culture-makers, go for it! But I'm not one of them, and it's unreasonable to expect most people to subscribe to that philosophy.

>Ideologically, this is where public institutions get into trouble. The mass mind is "anti-tax", doesn't "trust government", wants the "freedom to consume" as a socially dislocated agent, predicated on the freedom to disinvest from the commons.

I don't agree that "freedom to consume" is necessarily divorced from the desire for communal experience. The desire for community is strong, but the fear of perceived threats in a public, communal situation is stronger. When environments can be made to feel safe, people flock to them if they provide communal experience.

>I would suggest that you adapt to your environment, or open a bookstore yourself. Lakewood Library and locally roasted beans at the Phoenix. That is a self knowing vision.

Well, it's a nice idea, but I"m not going to do it. I'm not an entrepreneur. I'm a programmer, and I'm sticking with what I know professionally. When Lakewood finally has a commercial district that meets the requirements I laid out above, I'll start frequenting it and spending my money there.

The question in my mind: what is the path of least resistance. Ironically, an element to the answer is understanding the resistance to least resistance at the core of the Wood's demos.

Ok, that's my additional 2c...

--Steve

Stephen Gross wrote:...
Well, it's a nice idea, but I"m not going to do it. I'm not an entrepreneur. I'm a programmer, and I'm sticking with what I know professionally. When Lakewood finally has a commercial district that meets the requirements I laid out above, I'll start frequenting it and spending my money there.

The question in my mind: what is the path of least resistance. Ironically, an element to the answer is understanding the resistance to least resistance at the core of the Wood's demos.

Ok, that's my additional 2c...

--Steve

Shawn


Steve doesn't want to buy pants here. He wants the same coffee/shop bookstore that is 1 minute into rocky river. I want an apple store. See this is the problem.

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It takes a lot of socialism to build the roads and parking lots and procuring the gasoline to get you to the borders parking lot. The costs aren't fully borne by the consumers and businesses using them.

If atrophied social instincts compel people to spend a lot of time reading magazines in a place where other people are, I might suggest Sullivan's on Madison. They have ample seating, and even a a few walls of books. I've never seen anyone reading one, but I checked and they are real!

>One thing we have captured is that EVERYONE in Lakewood thinks it needs what they desire. EVERYONE has different desires. While Joan Robert's repeated cries for an Applebee's(just kidding) get canceled out by my deep desires for a Whitmore Bar-B-Que. If we were to build want many ask who would be left? Dare I say we rebuild the city as we all covet, and we are still left with a ten minute drive to get HERE!

I think you have a very good point here. Every individual has his/her own set of desires for the town they live in. Obviously, Lakewood on its own cannot satisfy all of them. I think what's at stake (or at least what's in question) is this: what is the mix of the most popular amenities at this given moment? Can Lakewood adapt to at least some of the items on that list?

>I had the pleasure of walking with Steve Gross as he explained time and again that Lakewood was not a walkable city. He worked very very hard at explaining to me how he knew it was not with only 1 food store in the entire town. Of course this was before he moved here. I feel after looking through what I had time for it is a person trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Hehe... Well, I live here now. But I travel outside the city for a lot of my activities, especially a lot of my shopping activities. From my perspective, the kinds of experiences (shopping included) that I want aren't available in Lakewood...

--Steve

Stephen Gross wrote:>One thing we have captured is that EVERYONE in Lakewood thinks it needs what they desire. EVERYONE has different desires. While Joan Robert's repeated cries for an Applebee's(just kidding) get canceled out by my deep desires for a Whitmore Bar-B-Que. If we were to build want many ask who would be left? Dare I say we rebuild the city as we all covet, and we are still left with a ten minute drive to get HERE!

I think you have a very good point here. Every individual has his/her own set of desires for the town they live in. Obviously, Lakewood on its own cannot satisfy all of them. I think what's at stake (or at least what's in question) is this: what is the mix of the most popular amenities at this given moment? Can Lakewood adapt to at least some of the items on that list?

>I had the pleasure of walking with Steve Gross as he explained time and again that Lakewood was not a walkable city. He worked very very hard at explaining to me how he knew it was not with only 1 food store in the entire town. Of course this was before he moved here. I feel after looking through what I had time for it is a person trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Hehe... Well, I live here now. But I travel outside the city for a lot of my activities, especially a lot of my shopping activities. From my perspective, the kinds of experiences (shopping included) that I want aren't available in Lakewood...

--Steve

Steve


Go back and read what you just wrote.

We can't have everything but let's start with my wants.

While we watch trends come and go, it would seem the only thing that offers any sanity to a city with the deep pockets Lakewood has is it to stick to proven amenities. How much sanity is there in building your bookstore, coffee shop and teenage hangout, when every other city has one.

This is like casinos. I would have been for it twenty years ago. Today it is insane. fighting for the gamming dollares between Vermillion and Mentor, seems like a pretty low figure to whore a town out for.

Dare I ask you and Shawn, what could Lakewood do to keep you from having to leave for all of your needs? My question spurred on by His Holiness the Dalai Lama is; If we build the teenage pants store, coffee shop drop in center will you be fulfilled, or do we need to build and change more and more? "... change for nothing more than the need to fill emptiness inside. Change keeps one mind off of the true self, and only creates the need for more change for change sake."DL

Maybe you have missed something in your brief stay.

Also could I be so bold as to ask why did you choose Lakewood and what has changed in the amount of time you have been here.

Judging by your comments of "least resitance" etc. That you did not land in the wood with hopes and dreams of changing it to Shaker Heights. So what has fallen apart in the last 6 months that has set off this alarm?

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I'll try to address your questions :)

>While we watch trends come and go, it would seem the only thing that offers any sanity to a city with the deep pockets Lakewood has is it to stick to proven amenities. How much sanity is there in building your bookstore, coffee shop and teenage hangout, when every other city has one.

I certainly think you're right to keep "traditional" amenities in mind, because they form the core of any city. Housing stock, schools, jobs, and city services (recreation and safety, most importantly). Those issues should always be front and center in city planning.

>Dare I ask you and Shawn, what could Lakewood do to keep you from having to leave for all of your needs?

Hmmm... Sure, ask away! :)

Ok, here's a quick list:

(1) Late-night, high-quality coffeeshops.

(2) A large, well-stocked bookstore.

(3) Better restaurants (more along the lines of Melt). Here's a quick list of non-Lakewood restaurants I go to a lot: Momocho, Cafe Tandoor, Anatolia, Pacific East, Mint Cafe, Lolita, Mi Pueblo, etc. BTW, I do eat at Borderline and Alladins a lot, too. About twice a month or so.

(4) Real public space (see my blog for a full explanation of that)

>Maybe you have missed something in your brief stay.

It's always possible...

>Also could I be so bold as to ask why did you choose Lakewood and what has changed in the amount of time you have been here.

I moved to Lakewood because:

(1) It has great highway access

(2) It's a convenient commute

(3) Tara's job necessitates easy travel west (Toledo and beyond)

(4) The cost of living is low

(5) I can live in a lakefront apartment with a downtown few and garage parking really cheaply.

(6) Lakewoodites are cool people.

(7) I spend a lot of time in rocky river reservation.

>Judging by your comments of "least resitance" etc. That you did not land in the wood with hopes and dreams of changing it to Shaker Heights. So what has fallen apart in the last 6 months that has set off this alarm?

Set off the alarm? Hmmm. I don't think that's quite the metaphor... I've been living here for a year and a half now. It's a nice place, and (I think) the best place to live in the County. But there are a lot of things it lacks...

--Steve

Steve

Thanks for proving my point.

So cost of living, view, metro parks, and the restaraunts many of which I presume you have not even tired cannot possible offset YOU having to drive 10 minutes to read FREE books and drink mediocre coffee?

Just do not know what to say.

I have been drinking coffee till past midnight and more than one location. All very comfortable with the best coffee in the city.

I think the big difference between you and I is I realize a city always has to be a compromise, and can easily accept the facts that sometimes I might have to drive ten minutes for some things. It is not MY city, just the place I have chosen to live for the short time I am on the earth.


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>So cost of living, view, metro parks, and the restaraunts many of which I presume you have not even tired cannot possible offset YOU having to drive 10 minutes to read FREE books and drimk coffee?

Nope, they can't. The problems that I've listed above are very significant.

>Just do not know what to say.
I have been drinking coffee till past midnight and more than one location. All very comfortable with the best coffee in the city.

I'm sorry to have to repeat it, but Lakewood--despite many amenities--still lacks a lot of things that I'm looking for. Like I said earlier, when Lakewood has a true public space that meets my criteria, I'll start spending my time and money there...

--Steve]

Stephen Gross wrote:>So cost of living, view, metro parks, and the restaraunts many of which I presume you have not even tired cannot possible offset YOU having to drive 10 minutes to read FREE books and drimk coffee?

Nope, they can't. The problems that I've listed above are very significant.

>Just do not know what to say.
I have been drinking coffee till past midnight and more than one location. All very comfortable with the best coffee in the city.

I'm sorry to have to repeat it, but Lakewood--despite many amenities--still lacks a lot of things that I'm looking for. Like I said earlier, when Lakewood has a true public space that meets my criteria, I'll start spending my time and money there...

--Steve]

Steve

Only in your mind. Most of your "problems" only come from you not getting out and around in Lakewood. They are not real, they truly exist only in the mind of the person not willing to do the hard work. Just like the day we walked around. Tandoor or good food at India Garden? Also the list does not exist in any ONE city. Perhaps it would be better if we regionalized or annexed like Columbus. Then they would be in one city 14 miles in diameter. Not realistic sorry to let you down.

Until it is perfect for you, some of us will walk around and make do with the comforts we have and have taken the time to discover. I fear when it meets your criteria, you might be the only one left and happy. But then, even you will not want it because there are no choices, no neighbors, no...

FWIW


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>Only in your mind. Most of your "problems" only come from you do getting out and around in Lakewood. they are not real, they truly exist only in the mind of the person not willing to do the hard work. Just like the day we walked around.

Well, clearly we disagree about this. I've made my best argument, so if you still agree with me then there's not much I can say.

--Steve