The Observation Deck

wow, what a thread. Seems to me that much of the original issues posted were overlooked though, as this thread unraveled to a parallel of "if you question it, you're against it".

Couple of questions to ease my mind that Lakewood really is as great as it's been touted by those with the rose colored glasses. I think it's a swell place to live but numbers always remind me that my opinion is on track. We all know that statistics can be presented either positively or negatively so let's just start with a few that were raised by the middle aged six and a few of my own.

Occupancy percentage of Lakewood offices?

Cost of brick pavers in crosswalks? Cost above or below continuous asphalt.

Effectiveness of ordinances written to maintain rented properties? Number of complaints filed, number of fines collected, etc.

Any statistics to provide evidence of the home based business surge? Contribution of tax dollars to city, percentage of the total commercial receipts, any thing to gauge this factor.

Cost of street maintenance annually. Both what we pay now and what we would need to pay to keep up if we were not concerned with a budget.

Cost of cement compared to asphalt and cost of additional work provided to replace aprons on streets like Belle or Manor Park. I would also like to know how that additional service was paid for a select few of the streets in Lakewood.

By all means if there are other facts, not emotional feelings, I'd love to hear them. I tend to agree with Charyn that you can't argue feelings. You especially can't pursuade someone to feel differently by telling them that you feel great and they should to. Just my opinion but I'm sure that a shrink or two would agree that empathizing and working through their concerns to find solutions is a better way to turn those frowns upside down.

I keep seeing this brick pavers in the crosswalk coming up-------

This is red colored concrete that is stamped with a brick shaped die. And, the red color along with the red,dimpled bricks on the aprons is meant to comply with The Disabled Americans Act requirements. The red color is distinguishable by assistance dogs.
So, let's drop that item at least from the list of "extravagances."

Stan Austin

thank you for that Stan. Just the type of information that I needed to make sense of what seemed to be a silly expenditure. Odd that seeing eye dogs did okay without them but we're not taking on the ADA here, so I won't mention it again. Actually, one last thing if it's an upgrade for ADA compliance some of the expense should be offset. I'd be interested if the city is really paying much of anything for this change.

Shawn-- I'll do my best to get a cost break out.
Stan

dl meckes wrote:

Bryan Schwegler wrote:...be interested in hearing your thoughts on why Lakewood is better for at home businesses than another city.

Bryan-

I was responding, but when I finished, I wondered if most of my reasons would also apply to having an office in Lakewood. Then I decided I needed to edit my response and found out that I had around 700 words.

At that length, it seemed like it could be an article for the paper. I'd bet that after a rewrite or two it will probably boil down to a few hundred words & will be posted here.

First I have to better consider the differences between home-based and office based businesses (aside from the bedroom slipper commute).

Great, I'll look forward to it.

Ken Warren remarked: Lakewood is something else.

Hmmm... Perhaps a new slogan for our town???

Late to the party here, but wanted to chime in a couple of thoughts.

1. I've lived here for 40 years --- and the "Lakewood is going downhill" has been on the lips of her citizens (and those who envy her) the entire time.

2. Three houses for sale on our block. One moved into Lorain County; two have purchased other homes in Lakewood. I think that's GREAT news!

3. We will welcome a foreign exchange student from Norway in August. It was a great exercise for us to sit with our teenage children to craft an email message describing our community to Helge and his family. The more we talked and typed, the more excited we were to live here in Lakewood and to be welcoming this young man to experience this great community! Having lived here nearly all my life, I think I've taken for granted what a great place this is. Here are some of the things we love about Lakewood:

Our economic & ethnic diversity
Our housing diversity
Our proximity to Lake Erie, downtown Cleveland, the Emerald Necklace, museums, theater and more!
Our walkability: we're minutes from the library, our schools, Lakewood Park, their friends' homes, great ice cream, the Y, restaurants and more!
Our friendliness: What a joy that people 'happen' by, pull in the drive, visit, and head on their way! (How many people 'happen by' a cul de sac in the burbs?)
Our schools: My kids are getting a great education in our public schools! And they're learning alongside new friends who are recent immigrants from Albania or Romania, and kids who live in Birdtown or in Clifton Park, and kids who are jocks and nerds and artists and goths and geeks and there's room and respect for all of them! And they're exposed to great music and arts programs. Did you see the Lakewood Project at Lakewood Park??

I'm glad we decided to raise our family here, and if I had the clams in the bank, I'd be investing in one of the new housing starts for our retirement home. (Actually....I'm holding off to see if they convert Franklin Elementary to lofts --- I'd give anything to retire in my Kindergarten classroom!)

Teresa

Teresa

While you, Ken, myself and others are deeply in love with our town, others have a little more realistic thought process about it. You through you great work with the Alumni and Ranger Shop, Ken with his work at the Library, and me and my LHS Class of 72 cohorts, which Heidi Hilty always laughs saying it is the McKinley Class of 64 that rules, have strong deep ties to this town that many will never have that didn't grow up here. Ken and I have drawn strength from a new Mantra supplied by Joan Roberts and it truly rings true and is much better than it sounds when first heard or read.

"Lakewood, it's good enough." This came from a discussion with one of Lakewood Observer's logic masters. While we had grown up on the koolaid called Lakewood, Joan Roberts moved here, and at one point wrote, to paraphrase. "I might not stay here, but Lakewood is good enough for now." At first I took offense, and wanted to debate this thought. I mean how could the suburb chosen as the Best by the Scene and FreeTimes, sitting in the most livable area in the USA be just "good enough." Slowly as I went through life in Lakewood I realized that not only was it true, but that it was positive statement, especially coming from someone that moved here and thought someday of moving to warmer climates or elsewhere.

After a day, a week, a year of good enough, you realize that good enough 9 times out of ten, 90 out of 100, 900 out of 1000, adds up to a damn fine city.

We all know Lakewood needs some help and tinkering, but compared to other areas or other cities it's good enough is pretty damn fine for most of us. We must not merely focus on the good stuff we need to dedicate ourselves to the chinks in our armor and strive to fix them, We need to be also realistic to what Lakewood has as opposed to what other cities offer. No need to trash those cities, they are different, and while we like living near the lake, the Emerald Canyon, good schools, hundreds of different stores in walking distance there might be some that like living within walking distances of malls, the Flats, or 30 acres of farmland.

As I said at the beginning some of us have an unfair advantage over what they would call "wash-a-shore" in Cape Cod. Some of my friends I have been good friends with since 4 years of age. Many on this board are newer friends that I met in Kindergarten, grade school through High School. After college we drifted away but came back because of what Ken calls "stickiness." For us we have an unrealistic view that few others will ever be able to share. For us Lakewood is the Best Place. So take a group that thinks it's the Best and another group that thinks it is Good Enough, and you still end up with an energized city that has great potential for the future.

Do any of us really need anymore than that? A good city with enough room for improvement that it energizes people to take part.

TA thanks for jumping in, you have much to add to this board.

Joan - Have I been doing a good job reading/listening? I just like acting dense for discussion purposes.


peace


.

May I add just one thing..."good enough to stand on its own without disparaging other people's choices"?

People have myriad reasons for deciding to live where they do. In addition to being able to walk to a mall or through 30 acroes of farmland, you could also include the people who dream of a place on the ocean or in the mountains, or even those who dream of never again having to buy a snow shovel or mittens.

At the end of the day, though, I think most people would agree that they want to live where there are:

1. safe streets
2. good schools
3. good economy
4. suitable housing

Obviously, number 4 means different things to different people.

I said last week that the "Lakewood lifestyle" appeals to maybe 1 in 10 people. That's probably low, I admit. But no matter what the percentage, Lakewood is best served if its leaders, political and otherwise, focus on those four areas (realizing the job will never truly be "done"), and not waste a second criticizing or disparaging those whose home fires burn elsewhere.

That's truly the only thing I read here that sticks in my craw,. When someone takes shots at Westlake or Avon Lake or the real human beings who live there, I often feel compelled to point out that Lakewood has ITS issues, too.

Remember that different people have different perspectives (even a sweet and innocent comment about the ruling "McKinley Class of '64" could be construed by an outsider to mean, if you weren't born here, you don't fit in) Remember that "home" conjures up different images to people of different backgrounds (I pointed out last week that urban sprawl's original toddlers are now 60 years old; to them, the vision of "home" is a split-level.in a subdivison).

Remember that congratulations, reinforcement, and reward are always preferable to condescension, scolidng, and smugness.

Keep working on the real issues, and keep it positive, and Lakewood will always be good enough for more people than anyone realizes.

So Mr. O, yes I think you've got it!

Joan Roberts wrote:
So Mr. O, yes I think you've got it!

I believe this is why my wife has stuck with me through thick and thin for 22 years. I am trainable. Not easy, not always fun, but when I get it and admit it, it makes her smile.


.

Jim,

When I said in this thread, that to post bad news was not a good thing to do on this forum, or whatever I said, was not to degrade this forum. I may have not put my thoughts in print clearly, since many times I post when I'm either going to sleep or just waking up, as my schedule is no where close to being the same day to day.

To clarify:
There have been many times when I or someone else has posted something they heard someone say. I have done it, and recently others have done it. It SEEMS that a post such as that, APPEARS to draw either anger, or some type of emotion other than "hmmm ok, so what can we learn from this" type thing.

There isn't a way to back up what someone says, their opinions or their viewpoints. It's just relating over the internet fence some chatter that one person hears another person talk about, without any URLs to back those overheard statements or comments made directly to the poster.

With the concept that anyone can post anything on here, why wouldn't it ok to post such things, and not HAVE to substantiate it with google results or some type of stats? Or is it? Have I missed something?

Maybe again it's me, since 'm ready to snooze, but again, today I heard some people make some comments about Lakewood while out and about. Irregardless if they were pro or con, maybe the question needs to be asked, does anyone want to hear them, or since they were just "overheard points" are they of no interest? Maybe not, and that is ok too.

I don't particularly relish being known as the "Mark that incorrectly said...", so maybe it is I that needs that point clarified for me and anyone else reading this that might want to know? I'll then adjust or not adjust my posts accordingly so I am not the "Mark that incorrectly said...."

Peace...

Mark

Because you and I have a pretty good history I will jump into this one with both feet.

All people are entitled to their own opinions, and their opinions certainly are of value, and can/should be shared.

I think we can all agree with that comment.

But let's drill this one down a little deeper without emotion. Ready for the ride into the land of soul searching?

How many people, post, and/or defend what other people think without thinking the very same thing themselves?

How many people walk into an office or discussion with, "I have a friend who..." when in fact the friend is actually the person posing the question and just is not willing at that stage of a discussion or friendship to take ownership of the thoughts thrown out?

I know for myself, that I would rarely even remember a discussion what alone repeat it on a board like this unless I thought there was some value in repeating it. I mean would any of us repeat a known lie, as a fact?

There was a person that used to post on this forum that would privately tell me things regarding his/her acceptance of diversity in Lakewood that bordered on Klan speak, but on the board was damn near liberal. But would throw out, "A neighbor of mine was worried about some of the baggy panted kids at Burger King."(this is an example not a real post so do not even bother looking) The neighbor generally said exactly what he/she said earlier to me.

To me this is akin to posting with a false name and not wanting to take ownership of the comments. In my mind it sells the product we offer here short of the power of discussion. Is there some value, I suppose, but I am still trying to figure this out.

THIS IS NOT CHARYN, and I can prove it easily to the rest of you to clear her good name in this.

When I posted about Moe's sign, his videos and hook you up. She defended him as a mother hen would defend a chick. Nearly accusing me of being a racist and afraid of diversity. Those that know me know nothing is farther from the truth. I actually have some of Moe's rap on my ipod. In her post these six, including what we are lead to believe was a mixed marriage people discussed some of the problems with baggy panted kids in the 'wood. So it would seem this is a real discussion, and she was reporting other people's thoughts.

But this is what set off alarm bells in my head. If she is willing to take me to task on ownership of my comments about Moe, why not apply the same thought process to those that were overheard? While Charyn and I have met, we do not hang together. It seemed like she had at least a modicum of comfort with the people talking. Why didn't she say, "I couldn't help but over hear..." Of course a certain degree of politeness might have stopped her. But it might have also stopped people from talking ill of the 'wood, and maybe corrected simple misconceptions. Think for a second how the post would of read then.

Honestly I only know a handful of people that are ready to do the true drill down needed when comments like this are voiced. So to expect it of others is unrealistic, but we all know I am a dreamer.

On the flip side I am a total pimp for Lakewood. This project was constructed to get news and facts out about Lakewood, hearsay is not fact, though it certainly could be, but it is thrown out of courts of law for damn good reason. I always think of the consequences of my postings on the entire effect of the city. Let's not forget the "google" curse, what we post can be read by others outside of Lakewood and to be honest our stats page would indicate about 10% of our 300,000+ a month page views are read by people outside of Lakewood and Ohio. This should be taken as a tremendous opportunity to build the brand, advertise the city and as Ken and I like to call one small part of the Visionary Alignment for Lakewood, "Draft Good Neighbors."

So let;s examine this aspect for a second with something very real that happened in Lakewood over ten years ago. It will be an extreme example, but true. You are looking to buy a house and are looking in Lakewood, and/or you are selling a house and thinking of leaving Lakewood, after all they are both about "property value." Suddenly a musician is killed for a $1.00 at a phone booth on Madison. The kids are caught, and they say, "It was just for the fun of it not the $1.00." Lakewood went through almost three years of not being able to give a house away. As the echo of "killing a musician for the fun of it" echoed through the county and country. Of course the truth was much different. The most important fact was that NONE OF THE KIDS were from Lakewood. It was a crime of chance and really could not reflect on the city. As a boy always looking for rainbows, I thought the better framing of the story for Lakewood was our Police Department had all the kids in jail in pretty short order. But the echo was out there and nearly impossible to get back.

Now let's move to the next problem in this ugly scenario and topic. Last month i had the pleasure of speaking to a group of 50 realtors. While I spent most of my time talking about Lakewood, I did mention to them if they have anyone interested by on the fence about buying in Lakewood, have them check out the board, sign on as others have done and ask residents about the city. So at this point let's recap quickly in this scenario. A person thinking of moving to Lakewood and is energized about community involvement signs on or reads the board and stumbles onto this thread and sees that people are wanting to move out, and decide to pass on this city. While none of us have any proof that these 6 people's "opinions" have ANY BASIS IN FACT, because they were never asked to explain. As this thread stays on the board, no at the top of the board how many have read the first three posts in this every lengthening thread and said, "No thanks."

To those of us working to make Lakewood better, not just bitch, and to those of us working and spending our money to "draft in good neighbors," a post like this drives us nuts. One post of overheard rumors could drive hundreds over the course of the post from making Lakewood their home and I believe that even Charyn would not want that.

When I read that Beck Center was moving I was bothered. When they threw in "moving to Crocker." All I could think of was, "How many people decided that day decide with not to move to Lakewood and looked to Westlake or thought time to move out of Lakewood." When I called Fred Unger and John Farina I brought this to their attention. If they truly loved Lakewood why the public slap in the face? Would it not have been just as easy to say, "Beck in need of financial help and need to look at all options." which an uniformed Beck member indicated might have been closer to the truth. Actually they claimed they never mentioned Crocker Park and that the PD had made up the headline not them, which we found out later was only partially true as they had mentioned Crocker Park.

But this only underlines another whole set of problems. It would seem that the regional papers the Plain Dealer and the Sun both have more than a simple curiosity in the "Regionalists" dreams. Lakewood is seen as not on the crown jewel in the regional plan, but the hardest city to get on board with the regionalist dream, so we have been targeted. To what extent who knows. Are the Section 8 apartment finders in collusion? Is the Mattress store in collusion? Are the members of the administration that live outside of Lakewood and had regional dreams in other cities in collusion? Who knows, I doubt it, but the city is under attack.

Why could that be? Because Lakewood is the Best suburb in the Most Livable Area of the USA might be one reason. Another might be our willingness to fund what has become one of the best libraries in the state and country. Another reason might be the citizens undieing love for a school system that is well funded, or a group of citizens that are willing to raise their own taxes if the city can PROVE where it is going. For a quick few reasons.

If you think I am crazy ask Dan Slife, Ken Warren, Suzanne Metleko and others that have sat in meetings where those with regional agendas have already talked of their plans for the 'wood when we fall into line on their dreams. Dan and Ken in particular have sat through what could be called nothing more than propaganda meetings where they show happy regional families living in all white neighborhoods with big beautiful homes and cars, while the non-regional cities are black ghettos that have high crime. Lakewood is under attack, from people that are acting like our friends. These people spread rumors and tear the city down, they act to drive down property values and chase us to the burbs. Why? We have to look no farther than Stark and the Beck when we leave, we leave behind extremely valuable land that is actually going to be worth more down the road.

Some of us have signed on to what we call the Visionary Alignment of Lakewood. the simple dream is that Lakewood with all of our pluses and minuses could become a Chautauqua or Berkley in the early sixties. A city filled with energized people that take part in day to day life. A city filled with artistic and intellectual capital. A place to live where people are not afraid of open discussion, or trying new ideas. A place that is totally different from Rocky River, Bay, Cleveland Heights, or the region that is being built around us. A place where energized people from around the country cash out their million dollar lofts in New York, Boston, San Francisco, and LA and move and tel their friends who move. Is it a dream that can never be achieved, ask Jill and John Crino who moved here from Brooklyn, ask Rita Ryland who moved here from San Francisco, ask Tom Barrett whose is building Rosewood after coming here from Boston. Ask Kim Shouls that moved here from Germany and opened an art gallery. They saw the possibility and believed.

And for those that grew up here, or moved here. What makes more financial sense to us in the long run. Become just another part of the region? Or make the city stands apart and the other option in the region? While it makes sense to buy in bulk, it makes no long term financial sense to destroy or homogenize a brand as pure as Lakewood.

To bring this rant to an end. While I know for a fact Charyn saw her post as nothing more than a simple discussion of what was overheard. some of us that have now dedicated our lives to building Lakewood saw it as knocking down a wall we had worked so hard to build. Had it been based on facts that could be proven, it would have taken on a completely different meaning.

Sorry for running so long, but you asked.

(I have gotten two phone calls about why can't we post negatives things on the board. Anyone can pst anything on this board. I was just expressing my hope that the negatives were based in fact and that those making the comments were available to discuss them. The six in the story are not, and that is a loss for all of us because their opinion is important.)


.