ANNOUNCEMENT: New Logo for Downtown Lakewood

[Jim O'Bryan]

It's Here?


The new Downtown Signs are here.

Looks great!

It is rumored that CVS underwrote the cost of this signage. I have a call in with the developer this morning. CVS
reached deep into their pocket for the signage on their store at West Clifton and Highland Ave. which has added
to the entrance to Lakewood on Clifton.

If this is true, and I for one have no doubts, as CVS have proven time and again to be good partners in Lakewood.

Thank you.

ALL WAY FINDING DOWNTOWN should be paid for by the businesses that will benefit from it, not the residents.

.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Well update for wayfinding in Lakewood, let's see how it is going.


This one installed and paid for by CVS Pharmacy.

Let's see how the city is doing...

nearly straight


At least they cast a mighty shadow.


Not a lot of consistency, in sizes or placement. Might need way-finding to find the way-finding.


This one needs way-finding and a safari guide! I am sure in what was once known as the city
of trees, the tree will be cut down, to make room for more signage, but then what happens next????


I would say if there is one thing the signage makes important is way-finding kiosks to
understand what the signs mean and where they go.




.

[Myra Beckrest]

I love how you can see the bicycle sign reflected in the window, yet you also see the bike chained to the tree. LOL....

[J Hrlec]

Well update for wayfinding in Lakewood, let's see how it is going.


This one installed and paid for by CVS Pharmacy.

Let's see how the city is doing...

nearly straight


At least they cast a mighty shadow.



Not a lot of consistency, in sizes or placement. Might need way-finding to find the way-finding.


This one needs way-finding and a safari guide! I am sure in what was once known as the city
of trees, the tree will be cut down, to make room for more signage, but then what happens next????


I would say if there is one thing the signage makes important is way-finding kiosks to
understand what the signs mean and where they go..

So are you saying that improvements and construction should not cause any mess, or it's not moving fast enough for you? Or is the city incapable because a few signs are crooked. Just a little curious...



Just confused.

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

I think he's saying that signs are generally all hung at same heights, same places, etc. Not one on top of the light pole, one in the middle, one in a tree. Think about the signage around town when you're driving. Where are all the signs usually located? Same spots. Do you put a stop sign on a different spot on every street? Nope. How about the signage that shows the street name? It's usually always in the same spots, every block. No turn on red signs, usually same spots.

From the looks of things driving through when I visited last time, whoever installed the signs did so with no clear plan. Different heights, different locations, different facing directions. It looks tacky. No sense of order or organization. It looks like the city bought a bunch of new signs, became giddy because they look nice and told the workers to decorate Detroit like it was a Christmas tree.

This does not look consistent at all, which is why Jim implies it is more of a sign safari than a navigational tool for visitors, because you are searching for signs as you're driving around DowntowN, not finding your way.

[Jim O'Bryan]

So are you saying that improvements and construction should not cause any mess, or it's not moving fast enough for you? Or is the city incapable because a few signs are crooked. Just a little curious...

Just confused.

I get this often, thanks for asking.



In this image, the point is. "Get the company hanging the signs to make sure they are straight, before they
pack up and leave." If it is the city, then, have the guys, who are very hard workers, get them right the first
time. If you look at the photos, 1 in 3 signs are crooked.

If we are doing this then lets do it right. CVS did it right, though it is amidst a ton of clutter. Clutter is
as unsightly on Detroit, as the guy withe never ending yard sales.

Lakewood, for whatever reason, has decided WE NEED WAYFINDING, so be it, let's do it right.



Consistency. One of the major perks of redoing signage, and wayfinding is so that you can take a second
and look at the full scope of the project and come up with an easy to use and understand standard. Sizes
all that same size, in the same locations, same color, same code and signaling. Over the course of decades
in a city sometimes there is design drift, but if one person is designing all of these at the same time, and
we are paying for them, even just 20%, lets get it right.



This is ridiculous, these signs were just put up with not trick photography. You simple cannot see the signs.
I would hate to see the tree cut down, but again, consistency and forethought with a plan. As we are under
construction now, it is far easier to correct now, than after it is all done. There are actually 3 more poles after
this where the signs could hang, not of them as obscured as this. However they would all be obscured by
other signs. where is the plain. Are the signs just too big?

Once again, as we are in the middle of the project, now is the time for the city to get it right. Another issue
many have raised with me, is are the faux red bricks, supposed to be red or pink? If they are supposed to be
pink, then they nailed it. These will fade with age not darken, lets get it right while they are here, after all
the project is costing us $600,000 at least on the low end.

Lakewood crews, and many are my friends, yes still, work their asses off. But we all make mistakes, every issue
of the paper I get emails with typos, mistakes, etc. It is part of the business I suppose. I always mention to
them damn, I wish you were here before we printed the paper. I see these threads as nothing more than that
a chance for us, the people paying for this work, to go back and say, excuse me but that just isn't
right yet.

FWIW


.

[J Hrlec]

So are you saying that improvements and construction should not cause any mess, or it's not moving fast enough for you? Or is the city incapable because a few signs are crooked. Just a little curious...

Just confused.

I get this often, thanks for asking.



In this image, the point is. "Get the company hanging the signs to make sure they are straight, before they
pack up and leave." If it is the city, then, have the guys, who are very hard workers, get them right the first
time. If you look at the photos, 1 in 3 signs are crooked.

If we are doing this then lets do it right. CVS did it right, though it is amidst a ton of clutter. Clutter is
as unsightly on Detroit, as the guy withe never ending yard sales.

Lakewood, for whatever reason, has decided WE NEED WAYFINDING, so be it, let's do it right.



Consistency. One of the major perks of redoing signage, and wayfinding is so that you can take a second
and look at the full scope of the project and come up with an easy to use and understand standard. Sizes
all that same size, in the same locations, same color, same code and signaling. Over the course of decades
in a city sometimes there is design drift, but if one person is designing all of these at the same time, and
we are paying for them, even just 20%, lets get it right.



This is ridiculous, these signs were just put up with not trick photography. You simple cannot see the signs.
I would hate to see the tree cut down, but again, consistency and forethought with a plan. As we are under
construction now, it is far easier to correct now, than after it is all done. There are actually 3 more poles after
this where the signs could hang, not of them as obscured as this. However they would all be obscured by
other signs. where is the plain. Are the signs just too big?

Once again, as we are in the middle of the project, now is the time for the city to get it right. Another issue
many have raised with me, is are the faux red bricks, supposed to be red or pink? If they are supposed to be
pink, then they nailed it. These will fade with age not darken, lets get it right while they are here, after all
the project is costing us $600,000 at least on the low end.

Lakewood crews, and many are my friends, yes still, work their asses off. But we all make mistakes, every issue
of the paper I get emails with typos, mistakes, etc. It is part of the business I suppose. I always mention to
them damn, I wish you were here before we printed the paper. I see these threads as nothing more than that
a chance for us, the people paying for this work, to go back and say, excuse me but that just isn't
right yet.

FWIW


.

JOB,

Thanks for answering, I like to know what is "behind" peoples postings here rather than the intial post. It does seem like there can be some corrections to a couple crooked signs and possibly some re-review of item placement. Although rather minor (IMO) hopefully this info may prompt some second looks by whoever is the project manager.

On a related note I am hearing many positive things about all these changes from both residents and people who live outside of Lakewood. Heck, I even know a couple people who recently decided to move to lakewood because not only of the city atmosphere as it always has been... but because of these improvements.

Take it for what its worth.

[stephen davis]

On a related note I am hearing many positive things about all these changes from both residents and people who live outside of Lakewood. Heck, I even know a couple people who recently decided to move to lakewood because not only of the city atmosphere as it always has been... but because of these improvements.

That's good to hear.

.

[Jim O'Bryan]

JOB,

Thanks for answering, I like to know what is "behind" peoples postings here rather than the intial post. It does seem like there can be some corrections to a couple crooked signs and possibly some re-review of item placement. Although rather minor (IMO) hopefully this info may prompt some second looks by whoever is the project manager.

On a related note I am hearing many positive things about all these changes from both residents and people who live outside of Lakewood. Heck, I even know a couple people who recently decided to move to lakewood because not only of the city atmosphere as it always has been... but because of these improvements.

Take it for what its worth.

J Hrlec

At the end of the day I try to be realistic. While I am still not sure of the need for wayfinding on a grided
bedroom facility, I suppose enough people wanted them that the city figured it was worth doing. Or at least
I hope so. Please note I did not chain myself to the church, the theater, the whatever, but I do like to know...
1) Why?
2) How much?
3) Was it worth it?
4) What did we give up for it?

The time to mention things like this is while the job is going on, as it is easier to correct.

If this was a single bike sign crooked, whatever, but this is a major clean up and rebranding of Lakewood, new
signs, new colors all for Downtown. If it is going down, might as well do it right. in recent years it has seemed
to me that an unusual amount of money has been taken from residents and spent on Downtown. While some
of it makes sense, it is my belief that businesses should be able to support businesses, and residents in a
bedroom community should benefit, in parks, safety, lower taxes, better amenities. It seems like for the last
7 or so years, it is residents carrying the businesses through many different methods, and I am not sure it
is paying off yet.

I am with Steve, that's great to hear. Again I am often accused of wanting Jimmyville, I would hate living in
Jimmyville, and would never want to make anyone live in Jimmyville. Communities are living organisms and
it does not take much to turn one from coll hip fun, to East Cleveland so to speak. We have something unique
here and it is working. Homes selling, people getting along, semi responsible development, which is better
than we have been offered in the past. It always seems to me that the organic places grow the best, work the
best, and have the best growth and endurance. That is a very good thing. I would hate to see it screwed up,
and I am happy to hear, people are coming in.

.

[Valerie Molinski]

Once again, as we are in the middle of the project, now is the time for the city to get it right. Another issue
many have raised with me, is are the faux red bricks, supposed to be red or pink? If they are supposed to be
pink, then they nailed it. These will fade with age not darken, lets get it right while they are here, after all
the project is costing us $600,000 at least on the low end.

Have you ever tried to color concrete? It's very difficult, if not impossible, to get a really dark consistent color when you do. And you are not correct that it will fade with age. If you look at all of the crosswalks installed throughout the city that are older, you will find they are actually darker from use/traffic.

That being said, I do not know if the same group that is doing the current stamped concrete sidewalks are the same that did the old ones or if they used the same mix design.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Have you ever tried to color concrete? It's very difficult, if not impossible, to get a really dark consistent color when you do. And you are not correct that it will fade with age. If you look at all of the crosswalks installed throughout the city that are older, you will find they are actually darker from use/traffic.

That being said, I do not know if the same group that is doing the current stamped concrete sidewalks are the same that did the old ones or if they used the same mix design.

Valerie

Thanks for the voice of experience on this. I have not tried to color concrete since the 60s with my Uncle.

I do not believe it is the same group, I'll go back through my photos at some point. I have photos of the
the company doing the crosswalks a couple years ago.

My background is in design and entrepreneurship. It is where I spent my life, while in design and printing, I
have seen many a job go back for being one chip off a Pantone chip. I will never forget, BP sending back every
card for every employee in Cleveland, basically two skids of cards, because the green was off 2 chips. It
reduced the printer to tears at the meeting, as they were reprinted at the printers cost, and they lost BP as
a client forever.

I have seen many a contractor work their hardest to get frustrated as the granite was not right, the stain was
too dark, the stove...

All I was thinking, is it is far easier to get it fixed now in the middle of the job, than 6 months from now. Now
that we have signed up for it, and are paying the bill, let's get it as right as we can.

.

[Myra Beckrest]

Since you're talking about Detroit, I might as well ask a question to see if anyone knows.

Is the city planning on redoing the lamp posts at all? First, there are too many in my opinion ~ to the point where you forget that you haven't yet turned on your lights and the nice police officers are kind enough to remind you with a pink slip (no disrespect, I think our Police Department is awesome.) Second, it seems odd to replace the old with the new and still leave the lamp posts the way they are. Now, I'm not trying to say "we should be like Kamm's" so please don't think I'm trying to make our city like anyone else's, but the overall look of what they are doing is very similar, so I would think that would be next.

Any news on that?

I think the pic below pretty well illustrates my point (do we really need THAT many??):

[Jim O'Bryan]

Hey, I am new to this way finding stuff, but...



Shouldn't this sign have arrows on it for the Post Office, and Lakewood Board of Education?

While when can argue the importance of a post office, certainly the most historically important building still left
standing has to be the Lakewood Board of Education Building. I just saw where they poured a ton of money into
fixing up the roof and such. Why aren't these signs celebrating that?

.

[Scott Meeson]

While when can argue the importance of a post office, certainly the most historically important building still left
standing has to be the Lakewood Board of Education Building. I just saw where they poured a ton of money into
fixing up the roof and such. Why aren't these signs celebrating that?

.

Be patient...no celebration comes before its time!


And then, maybe, we'll have ourselves ..............................................





Just having a little fun, Jim.

Enjoy INDEPENDENCE DAY!!

Scott Meeson

[Charlie Page]

Hey, I am new to this way finding stuff, but...



Shouldn't this sign have arrows on it for the Post Office, and Lakewood Board of Education?

While when can argue the importance of a post office, certainly the most historically important building still left
standing has to be the Lakewood Board of Education Building. I just saw where they poured a ton of money into
fixing up the roof and such. Why aren't these signs celebrating that?

.

Why are we directing people to I-90? Don't we want to keep them downtown? Shouldn't we have a sign near I-90 directing people downtown?

How much did the owners of the parking garages kick in for these signs? I'm sure their business has increased.

The wayfinding sign heading west on Detroit at Belle causes me even more head scratching. It says '<- Hospital' and points across the street to Lakewood Hospital. Never mind the huge Lakewood Hospital sign directly across the street or all the little blue 'H' signs that direct you there.