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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: New Logo for Downtown Lakewood

Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:58 pm
by Charlie Page
Matthew John Markling wrote:
stephen davis wrote:Wayfinding has arrived in Lakewood!

I understand that DowntowN wayfinding will be installed soon.

No more confusion.


Steve,

Any updates as to when?

Matt

The "Capital Improvement Plan" section was not included in the City's 2012 budget as it had been included in prior years. This section lists the detail of each proposed project including funding source and year to be undertaken. I went back to the 2011 budget and reviewed that section. I couldn't find any mention of Wayfinding signs.

Are wayfinding signs really necessary? 43% of cell phones are smart phones and that number is growing.

I think we have too many signs as it is. I remember a pic, that I believe Jim posted, looking down Detroit and thinking there are way too many signs. There is too much sign clutter! We need a sign minimization project! :)

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: New Logo for Downtown Lakewood

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:55 pm
by marklingm
Matthew John Markling wrote:
stephen davis wrote:Wayfinding has arrived in Lakewood!

I understand that DowntowN wayfinding will be installed soon.

No more confusion.


Steve,

Any updates as to when?

Matt


Hey, Steve!

When will we see these signs?

Matt

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: New Logo for Downtown Lakewood

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:58 pm
by marklingm
Charlie Page wrote:Are wayfinding signs really necessary? 43% of cell phones are smart phones and that number is growing.

I think we have too many signs as it is. I remember a pic, that I believe Jim posted, looking down Detroit and thinking there are way too many signs. There is too much sign clutter! We need a sign minimization project!


From 2/9/2010 on this thread:

Jim O'Bryan wrote:
Jim O'Bryan wrote:Image



To be fair, I used a photo of St. Charles, just like the above area. I took the photo this
morning, and because of where I was standing I got the south side of the street, but
it is still St. Charles and Detroit like the Illustration.


Detroit and St. Charles without any way finding.


Image


OK

NOW


Detroit and St. Charles with way finding signage!


Image


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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: New Logo for Downtown Lakewood

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:05 am
by Jim O'Bryan
It's Here?

Image
The new Downtown Signs are here.

Image
Coming into DowntowN.

Image
Leaving DowntowN, as seen from the car.

Image

Image
Other way finding. Parking signs.

Image
Helping find our way.

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: New Logo for Downtown Lakewood

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:39 am
by J Hrlec
Jim O'Bryan wrote:It's Here?

Image
The new Downtown Signs are here.

Image
Coming into DowntowN.

Image
Leaving DowntowN, as seen from the car.


Looks great!

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: New Logo for Downtown Lakewood

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:01 am
by Jim O'Bryan
J Hrlec wrote:Looks great!


J Hrlec

The fence will be down today or tomorrow I think.

I also noticed it is Burgundy instead of the "red" that was picked by the group.

Not sure why, but after 3 years and many $$$$$ there are being put up.

I guess way finding, is more important than parks.

Yesterday there was a county talk that everyone that has done way finding has done it differently and
that the county now wants everyone to fall in line for county wide recognizable way finding, so I wonder
if they will be legislating different way finding than what we have invested in?



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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: New Logo for Downtown Lakewood

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:48 am
by Ivor Karabatkovic
you'd think putting them on the poles instead of behind would help visibility in a already cluttered scene.

14 years later, I finally know where DowntowN Lakewood is!

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: New Logo for Downtown Lakewood

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:13 pm
by Myra Beckrest
Darn... I was hoping that CVS wasn't going to put up a day-glo sign on their building and just use the bracket mounted sign on the side and the "CVS" inscription on the corner... it looked so nice and then they added that...

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: New Logo for Downtown Lakewood

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:48 am
by Betsy Voinovich
Jim O'Bryan wrote:It's Here?

Image
Coming into DowntowN.

Image
Leaving DowntowN, as seen from the car.

.

Jim--

I don't get you here.

I don't see how you can say that the one sign means "Coming into DownTown Lakewood" and the other side of the sign, which looks exactly the same, means "Leaving DoWntown Lakewood." The signs don't say "Welcome" and then "Leaving." I'm confused. If I'm heading West on Detroit in front of the new CVS and I see that DowntOwn sign, doesn't that mean that I'm entering DoWntown, and that Lakewood's DoWNtown is actually Merry Arts, Jammy Buggars, the Methodist Church, Max Tan and Ross Deli?

I think we might need some more signs. How much did these ones cost again?

Betsy Voinovich

And why do they have the letter "L" on top of them. Is that "L" for "Lakewood"? They say "Lakewood" on them. Oh, is that so we match the county? What about Lyndhurst?

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: New Logo for Downtown Lakewood

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:05 am
by Jim O'Bryan
Image
Another shot with some of the clutter removed. When the fence and cones are removed it will be easier
to see that is for sure.

I have had many conversation with with Sean who was not only on the committee in charge of the signs,
but also headed up the construction for Zaremba of the CVS. Sean is a great family guy,
loves Lakewood, and lives so close to this development he is also a happy neighbor to the project.
The best point he has made with me for the signs is that we are only paying for a portion
of them. What portion I forget. And if we needed or wanted waf-finding signage, it is much
better to get a portion it reminds me of the comic strip "Blondie" for those old enough to
remember Blondie and Dagwood. "It was half off, so if you deduct what we saved from
what we spent, it's free." SEAN NEVER SAID THAT, Sean is pretty sharp. Blondie
would have. Sean's point that there was money out there for "way finding" and that we
would be foolish to think about doing it without trying to do it in time to get the grant
money is spot on. Still, do we need way-finding, why and for who?

This is where it gets tricky. Are we building Lakewood for those that do not live here to come here and drink? Or
are we building Lakewood from the foundation it has had for decades, a bedroom community that is a great
place to raise your kids and call home? When a city decides to spend its money on helping people find downtown
instead of keeping the parks clean and open for residents, I would say the writing is on the wall for where we
are headed and what the mindset is in Lakewood City Hall.

At the meeting at the Clifton Club last week, even though it was for a housing project both Mayor Summers and
Nate Kelly from the county, spoke of millions that could be allocated to Lakewood for commercial development.
While this sounds great, especially to the we want lower taxes crowd at the CC, it sends off warning bells in my
head. Commercial property is the second most expensive property for a community to maintain. It is only second
to empty commercial property which is so expensive to maintain, it should make everyone thinking of commercial
development to pause and think long term, can we afford it? The analogy I make is I collect cars, but even if
someone gave me a Ferrari, I could not afford to maintain it. Hence, I love Ferraris, love riding in Ferraris, and
am very content, with that knowing I never need to worry about owning one.

The State of the City was all about belt tightening, all about cutting services, all about us getting meaner and
meaner. Well no one mentioned meaner, but you get the drift. So how can this city justify $400,000 for nice
sign post on Clifton, and wayfinding in Downtown? These are luxuries, not necessities. When I think that for
the cost of the new "Downtown Lakewood" sign we might have been able to keep the park 100 yards away open
as it has been for decades until 11 pm for all residents, and Downtown, it really gives me pause to consider how
else is our very limited budget being wasted, or directed away from residents into supporting a business district
that while we are told is booming seems unable to pay for its own luxuries?

The good people on the sign committee did a good job with what they were told. Come up with a sign very
similar to the one we already have designed, preferably in the burgundy we wanted. And they did that. But I
wonder if someone had said, let's design a sign for downtown, and it will cost us as much as 12 hours a day
use for two of our parks to be named later. Would they still have done the job at all? Or would they have stopped
and asked why do we have to close parks, why do we need to spend money on letting someone yet to be decided
to know when they are officially downtown?

Making a city look better...

Image
Hudson, Ohio

In all of my travels the single best way for a city to look cleaner, and more together is through the removal of
overhead wires. This photo through a dirty car window of Hudson illustrates what I am saying. I still has the
crappy A-Frame signs, and clutter Lakewood has, but without the cat's cradle of wires over the street it looks
cleaner and neater. Sean has designed this into CVS Pharmecy's new building. Should the city of Lakewood ever
get serious about cleaning up Downtown, it should seriously look at underground wiring be mandatory for all new
buildings. Michael Dever had asked for this from AT&T when they brought in UVerse, and fellow council members
struck it down as being to costly for AT&T to do.

At some point this city has got to start acting like the prettiest girl at the dance(3 years in a row best suburb),
and start demanding our dates(businesses moving in) come dressed for the special occasion.

FWIW


.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: New Logo for Downtown Lakewood

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:11 am
by Myra Beckrest
Excellent point bringing up Hudson. Hudson is a very nice community, with less retail than Lakewood but for those who are unaware, that is a picture of the main drag (RT 91) going right through the heart of it's mainstreet.

One note that Lakewood could take from Hudson as well, which they might have already as apparent in the new CVS, is signage. They are quite strict. In fact, if you keep going south on 91 in Hudson past that picture, and hang a right on 303, you'll see a McDonalds... and almost pass it never knowing it was there. It barely looks like a McD's and has a low wood sign. The building itself is mainly brick and fits in to the "old town" look.

EDIT: Here's a pic that I found on the web of it. Could you imagine having something similar in Lakewood? Definitely looks better than the huge golden arches! And yes, there is a drive-thru

Image

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: New Logo for Downtown Lakewood

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:30 pm
by J Hrlec
Myra Beckrest wrote:Excellent point bringing up Hudson. Hudson is a very nice community, with less retail than Lakewood but for those who are unaware, that is a picture of the main drag (RT 91) going right through the heart of it's mainstreet.

One note that Lakewood could take from Hudson as well, which they might have already as apparent in the new CVS, is signage. They are quite strict. In fact, if you keep going south on 91 in Hudson past that picture, and hang a right on 303, you'll see a McDonalds... and almost pass it never knowing it was there. It barely looks like a McD's and has a low wood sign. The building itself is mainly brick and fits in to the "old town" look.

EDIT: Here's a pic that I found on the web of it. Could you imagine having something similar in Lakewood? Definitely looks better than the huge golden arches! And yes, there is a drive-thru

Image


Would you happen to know if McDonald's built the building or if the building existed and re-used for this purpose?

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: New Logo for Downtown Lakewood

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:56 pm
by stephen davis
J Hrlec wrote:Image

Would you happen to know if McDonald's built the building or if the building existed and re-used for this purpose?


J,

Decades ago, Hudson initiated the "Green Plan" to protect their downtown during considerable growth and change. It was to be a thirty year plan that considered existing buildings and homes, unprecedented traffic, population and commercial growth, local character, and the transition of an industrial area west of (directly behind) the commercial buildings on Rt. 91 to commercial.

I don't really have special knowledge of this, but I believe Lakewood resident, and Hudson expatriate, Bruce Baker, may be able to talk about planning in that community. If I am not mistaken, his father had significant input on the Hudson "Green Plan". Bruce's wife, Louann (sp?), works in our Mayor's office.

The McDonald's was built new many years ago.

The lack of overhead utility wires can be credited to a James Ellsworth initiative of almost 100 years ago. (See the Wikipedia reference to James Ellsworth at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ellsworth.)

Residents had a vision and a plan that seems to have succeeded.

Lakewood can't, and shouldn't, be like Hudson, but some borrowed ideas may be beneficial. Hudson has a Council/Manager form of government. My limited experience with that form of government suggests to me that Council/Manager communities may develop more successful long-range planning, continuity, and implementation, vis-à-vis the length of Lakewood's Mayoral terms.

I didn't notice special wayfinding on my last trip through Hudson, though I did find it a little difficult to navigate around "the green" because the traffic patterns have been altered by the "Green Plan" since I was a denizen of that area.


Steve

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: New Logo for Downtown Lakewood

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:05 pm
by J Hrlec
stephen davis wrote:
J Hrlec wrote:Image

Would you happen to know if McDonald's built the building or if the building existed and re-used for this purpose?


J,

Decades ago, Hudson initiated the "Green Plan" to protect their downtown during considerable growth and change. It was to be a thirty year plan that considered existing buildings and homes, unprecedented traffic, population and commercial growth, local character, and the transition of an industrial area west of (directly behind) the commercial buildings on Rt. 91 to commercial.

I don't really have special knowledge of this, but I believe Lakewood resident, and Hudson expatriate, Bruce Baker, may be able to talk about planning in that community. If I am not mistaken, his father had significant input on the Hudson "Green Plan". Bruce's wife, Louann (sp?), works in our Mayor's office.

The McDonald's was built new many years ago.

The lack of overhead utility wires can be credited to a James Ellsworth initiative of almost 100 years ago. (See the Wikipedia reference to James Ellsworth at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ellsworth.)

Residents had a vision and a plan that seems to have succeeded.

Lakewood can't, and shouldn't, be like Hudson, but some borrowed ideas may be beneficial. Hudson has a Council/Manager form of government. My limited experience with that form of government suggests to me that Council/Manager communities may develop more successful long-range planning, continuity, and implementation, vis-à-vis the length of Lakewood's Mayoral terms.

I didn't notice special wayfinding on my last trip through Hudson, though I did find it a little difficult to navigate around "the green" because the traffic patterns have been altered by the "Green Plan" since I was a denizen of that area.

Steve.


Great info, thanks!

I agree we shouldn't try to be Hudson or exactly like anyone other city...because Lakewood is so unique. However, as seen in this thread it could be worth reviewing and using plans/ideas that other cities have been successful with.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: New Logo for Downtown Lakewood

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:41 pm
by Jim O'Bryan
I was thinking maybe we should copy that "plan thingy" Hudson and other communities are doing.

I think a plan for what the city is and where it is going would be a refreshing change.

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