The Observation Deck

Looks like Rocky River has started the process before SB5 has even passed:

http://blog.cleveland.com/westshoresun/ ... makes.html

Yes, it would seem that something really big is beginning now...

By the way, looked at from a historical perspective, teachers have often been at odds with a public that has, at times, been unwilling to value their contribution to the education of the most valuable resource in America; its children.

In my mind, the so-called "calls for merit pay and accountability" have been smokescreens for a much larger and more dangerous agenda in my view, that being the dismantling and privatization of public education...

Longevity and extra schooling allowances, coupled with administrative appraisals, have long been accepted as being an effective measure of merit accountability. The new forms of measures of merit pay thus far proposed, that I've seen, have all smacked of subjectivity and top-down arbitrary unvarnished power.

Privatizing education could well make it that much more difficult for an individual to get accountability from authorities, but again, what's my little opinion worth these days? For that matter, how much will anyone's opinion matter in this country in the years to come? I believe with all my heart that a union's struggle is the struggle for all of us who have labored, but I digress here.

Concerning the thought that throwing in a private business profit motive in education would somehow cheapen the cost of teaching children?. That part, I've never been able to understand, except that it would certainly seem to come at a cost of the rights and benefits that teachers have fought so hard to achieve in the last century.

Teachers have always supported honest accountability, but of course, people will believe what they want to.

All, just my opinion, so...

...let the struggle begin, and let the pieces fall where they may.

Back to the banjo...

Did you read the article? They are hoping it will serve as a two year buffer so that they can figure things out after HB5 passes. Two of the new contracts features would will be outlawed. The new law will require employees to pay at least 20% of their healthcare and eliminate all step increases.

Bill

Bryan Schwegler wrote:
Why do you need a union to make merit-based pay fair? Seems to work pretty well in the private sector and in many states in this country where there isn't a teacher's union, (GA for instance) but they still have teachers and they're not leaving en masse because they don't think it's fair.

I'm not saying that we need to get rid of the union, but I just don't see how the union is needed to guarantee fairness when it works so well in many other places without unions.

Because it is the public sector. Will employees that agree with the current boards political direction "merit" more pay, over those who do not? Will Mr. Wheeler "merit" a job or better pay since he publicly discusses educational issues that his evaluators may not like? Will he "merit" a raise if he sells tickets to board member x's cookout? Oh, wait a minute that was Cuyahoga County prior to Jan. 1st.

Since this is the direction we are going don't the employees need a collective seat at the table? Let's not forget the large majority of professional teachers are there to do a job and do it well. They might have some valuable input.

Bill

Bill Trentel wrote:

Bryan Schwegler wrote:
Why do you need a union to make merit-based pay fair? Seems to work pretty well in the private sector and in many states in this country where there isn't a teacher's union, (GA for instance) but they still have teachers and they're not leaving en masse because they don't think it's fair.

I'm not saying that we need to get rid of the union, but I just don't see how the union is needed to guarantee fairness when it works so well in many other places without unions.

Because it is the public sector. Will employees that agree with the current boards political direction "merit" more pay, over those who do not? Will Mr. Wheeler "merit" a job or better pay since he publicly discusses educational issues that his evaluators may not like? Will he "merit" a raise if he sells tickets to board member x's cookout? Oh, wait a minute that was Cuyahoga County prior to Jan. 1st.

Since this is the direction we are going don't the employees need a collective seat at the table? Let's not forget the large majority of professional teachers are there to do a job and do it well. They might have some valuable input.

Bill

So you're saying all the states that don't have a union for teachers (and there are many), have unfair processes?

I don't really think is argument holds much water unless you're assuming everyone outside of the union is an unethical person and I'm not so sure that's true.

If all those states, plus all the government agencies that don't have unions, plus almost the entire private sector can figure out fair ways to evaluate employees, that it could happen in Ohio also. A union or not will not prevent unethical behavior on either side.

Unions have a purpose, but everything should be on the table.

To be clear, there are only four states without teachers' unions. And they rank as the bottom four in our nation. I'm on lunch, so I can't give the details specifically yet, but please understand that there are not MANY states without a teachers' union.

The following is a link of to a short related article.
The handful of non-union states are primarily in the south and from what I know (not much) not particularly know fro their effective public education. In what little research I've done (not much) I haven't come across much I would call un-bias, either right wing think tank pro or union con regarding "merit" pay.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/day ... 92895.html

Bill

Thanks for the input on non-union states. I've had my say, but I'm definitely clearly outnumbered in this thread so we'll leave it as it is. I believe the current system is suboptimal, others can disagree. But an honest look needs to be had at the entire system and that's difficult to do with emotions and personal well-being are tied up in the very system that needs critiquing. I don't envy anyone who has to do it.

My one piece of advice for people who are both in the union and in the administration is that you need to try as hard as you can to step out of your vested interests and look at the system and what needs to be fixed, because until both sides get serious and honestly evaluate the opportunities, you're allowing the story to be controlled by the outside zealots like those in Columbus and that's not a good thing.

It was an interesting exercise.

Bryan Schwegler wrote:My one piece of advice for people who are both in the union and in the administration is that you need to try as hard as you can to step out of your vested interests and look at the system and what needs to be fixed, because until both sides get serious and honestly evaluate the opportunities, you're allowing the story to be controlled by the outside zealots like those in Columbus and that's not a good thing.

It was an interesting exercise.

I agree 100%. SB5 doesn't do it.

Bill

So....is it time for our banjo sing-a-long yet?

How is it that we seem to get along so well here in Lakewood when the rest of the world seems to be shaking in its boots?

Back to the banjo...

Gary Rice wrote:How is it that we seem to get along so well here in Lakewood when the rest of the world seems to be shaking in its boots?

I think it's because we live in such a great place we don't need to be overly dramatic to feel good.

We know the difference between being exceptional and the crudity of exceptional ism.

I'll be at The Root at 11 on Saturday. If anyone would like to come and talk about this in person, I'd love the opportunity to continue our community's conversation about teaching and learning. While I appreciate the deck, I also appreciate the opportunity to hang out with my neighbors. I hope to see you there.

I think a major barrier to any discussion of education is that people in the educational complex take any criticism of the complex as personal criticism. Those of us who are critical usually tend to talk about the institutions and organizations, rather than the individuals who work there. It is as though I noticed that my car was getting rusty and I needed a new one, at which point the steering wheel would disagree, saying he isn't rusty (he's plastic), then the radio would disagree, saying he isn't rusty. Yet taken as a whole, the car is in fact rusty, unreliable, and unsafe, and needs replacement.

In Lakewood, I think our schools are good, at least by the current standards of an industry that is highly resistant to change. But that is not to say that they could not be improved.

The problem is that the education complex of the country, as a whole, is lagging. Where once we were producing among the best educated students in the world, we are now sinking to third world status (except for the home-schooled students who seem to be winning all the spelling bees lately). This is widely known and a matter of great concern to most Americans. Why would we be giving the education complex so many billions of dollars if there isn't a problem. Why would something like the No Child Left Behind act be overwhelmingly approved if there isn't a problem.

Despite what we have done so far, the decline continues. That is why so many people are looking for changes, and certainly not all the proposed changes make sense, and one hopes those that make little sense will not come to pass. But when people are really worried about something, often they do not act with calm consideration. Couple this near-panic with people with agendas, and don't expect to reach a consensus.

For example, I think it is fair to say that Mr. Rice is heavily invested in unionism, and would never agree to limits on union involvement. For example, he says he cannot comprehend how private schools could deliver better services for less, as they all seek profits (ignoring the many private schools that are non-profit, and that many of us would choose if we could afford them). But the hard fact is that a for-profit enterprise can often outperform a non-profit enterprise. I had three items, all bought on the same day, which had to be delivered. I've received the ones delivered by UPS and Fedex (shamefully pursuing profits) while I still await the one to be delivered by the USPS (not pursuing profits, nor, apparently, doing much of anything). So to me it is perfectly conceivable that a charter school with a profit motive could be more innovative than a public school, and produce better results. Its also conceivable that a charter school could run a scam for a few years, mostly because it is the Department of Education that is charged with monitoring them.

Unions are like just about everything else one encounters in life. There are things about them that we might agree with, and things that we might not like about them. On the whole yes, I think they have served a beneficial purpose to my profession, but as far as my being "invested in unionism" goes, (whatever that means?) Being retired, the only "investments" that I'm particularly interested in these days are those that might give me at least a little rate of return.

The same pros and cons discussions might be had for public and private schools, (whether for-profit or not) Both school models have great advantages. As for any disadvantages? I'll leave more discussion on that topic to others, for the time being.

Back to the banjo...